Bugger ! Smoke at start - burnt alternator cable !!!!

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Sat Jun 18, 16 10:34 pm

Hi all,
Been a long lonely time while the forum was down but in the meantime managed to change the door locks so at least the Chally locks (after a fashion) - bit hit and miss with the unlocking to be fair .....
Anyways, taking it off to London to see my brother and family for Father's Day (wife wanted to take the Volvo, but being Father's Day I kinda got my way ) - hasn't been driven for a couple of weeks but have started and allowed to idle for about 15 mins while working on it yesterday. Went to start it today and it fired but I'd say on the last crank of the battery - drove about 10 mins to garage to get fuel after which, no cranking power, turning over, but very sluggishly.
Opened the hood and tried again now being able to see the battery and got a wisp of smoke off the neg terminal.
Obviously this didn't exactly fill me with joy ..... Waited a tad and tried once more and got the same as well as a little more smoke from somewhere deeper in the engine bay ! Cock !
Needless to say, was clever enough not to try again - got a mate to bring up a vehicle and some jump leads - cranked fine once connected, no smoke and fired up.
Battery currently on a trickle charge overnight and does show signs of being undercharged.
Question is this : is this just indicative of heat caused from undercharged battery being drained viciously under start ?
Or ...... To I need to start to look deeper at faulty starter motor, bad wiring ???
Thanks as ever
Garp

Post by **MattH** » Sat Jun 18, 16 10:40 pm

Bad earths maybe and has the bulkhead connector been bypassed?

drewcrane · Post by **drewcrane** » Sun Jun 19, 16 1:27 am

Yea you have to find the source of the smoke,and yes the bulkhead connector, start there, also check the fusable link,see if it is ,or has been blown,also voltage regulator,and check all ground(earths),and how old is the battery,and do you have something to check voltage? the battery might be part of the problem,and the ground with that goes from the battery,it should also have one on the engine,that might have been the smoke you saw,so check those connections, make sure you have atleast 12,8 volts if not a bit more

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Sun Jun 19, 16 3:27 pm

..and if you haven't already, inverts in a mini starter. £136 and an absolute bargain. Youll recognise how slow your old starter is with one of these

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Sun Jun 19, 16 7:32 pm

.....so annoyingly, the story continues thus......
Put the recharged back in the Chally and cranked her up. Started as I hoped she would but something inside me said that until I got to the bottom of what was going on, I wasn't planning on a trip to London - thank Dog for that !
Decided it was back to storage and off I went ......
About 5 miles in and there was a gurgle from the engine and all power went, engine died, brakes and steering stopped responding and fuel gauge dropped.
Not being a total retard, I guessed either battery, fuses or alternator - turned out to be the latter - heavy wire to the alternator had burnt off, not attractive !!!!
Disconnected battery, stripped he wire, reconnected and got a jump start and managed to get it back to storage.
Ok, now please talk slowly here ......... Obviously a problem with circuit, and from previous comments, earth connection.
Slowly, and in dumbass speak, please explain the exact earths that need to be in place, where they originate and where they end - I'm guessing that replacing these earths one by one should eliminate any probable engine fire .
Need to be up n running by Thursday to take it to Goodwood,
All help VERY appreciated......
...... and yes, a mini starter is very much on the radar, just need to get all this other firey-smokey Bananarama! out the way !

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Sun Jun 19, 16 8:07 pm

I would strongly advise checking all the wiring out thoroughly.

If you are not confident enough then get someone like Jim Smith to go through it and I would also advise bypassing the Ameter as this is a known fire risk on all Mopars. There are lots of posts on here about this and on the web in general.

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Sun Jun 19, 16 8:20 pm

Pete wrote:I would strongly advise checking all the wiring out thoroughly.
.

Pete,
Sadly it looks like my Chally was wired by Ray Charles obeying the "any colour wire as long as it's BLACK !!!!!!" rule .......
Clearly it's been cobbled together and something isn't playing ball just now - truth is I might have to stump up for a new loom and a knowledgable auto-sparky-fellow, but until then, need to eliminate any risk of a short/engine bay fire.
Heavy wire from battery to engine block is sound, bulkhead is a birds nest with an abandoned electronic start so need to look rather carefully and trace back to origin ..... Long week ahead AND I have work.
Thank Dog for lighter nights !!!!

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Sun Jun 19, 16 9:24 pm

GerGert yourself a workshop manual if you haven't already. Its priceless in working on a car of this age. Also get yourself a copy if the electrical wiring diagram. It cascasn be had free online.......usually two files front half if car and rear.

Unfortunately all these cars have beern through the twenty year old snotter stage, where the car is utilised within the bangernomics code. Elastic bands and duct tape.

Confidence in the car is something that is priceless..........its very hard to get back once you lose it. I still don't 100% enjoy driving mine yet. But each mod and drive fills an extra few pieces.

Overcharging can also be an issue attributed to knackered wiring and bad earths. Putting additional load through 40 year old wiring can have interesting outcomes.

Get a multimeter as this will let you go through the main charging circuit and tell you what's happening between alt and battery.

Lastly as Pete says.......Ammeter bypass. Loads of discussion on here and must be one of the most done mods on any Mopar of this vintage. Another step towards safeguarding the car! Highly recommended!

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Sun Jun 19, 16 9:37 pm

Confidence in the car is something that is priceless..........its very hard to get back once you lose it.

.......100% agreed. The fact that I could get it started and running is a far cry from the old days when I'd just call the RAC. Unlike my missus's car I can fix the Chally without the need of a laptop. Will get a wiring diagram from Mopar website.
Just wanna make sure I can use it Thursday.
Cheers

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Sun Jun 19, 16 9:54 pm

Ok don't panic. I had this with my first Dart. The main black feed from the back of the alternator goes up to the bulkhead. It then feeds off to various gauges and thru the infamous ammeter before going back out to the battery.

You have probably burnt out the fusable link on that circuit. I had to tow my car home. Basically all the amps go thru that black wire from alt and if you earth it out it all goes to hell.

Search the net and see if you via find a A4 wiring diagram in colour. I had one and it's invaluable. The wiring under the hood is quite straightforward once you see a diagram. As Pete and Dave say, get some advice, go back to basics and you can cure it quite simply. Information is your friend.

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Sun Jun 19, 16 10:14 pm

cheers chaps ...... need to visit an automotive store and get me some wire !
Wiring diagrams, simple as they may be, can really mess with your head ...... no matter how much I squint, I cannot see the 3D picture !!!!
I think it's a monkey !
Goodnight, back on the case in the morning ......
Thanks

Charger · Post by **Charger** » Mon Jun 20, 16 10:20 am

some useful related links …

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Mon Jun 20, 16 10:50 am

Do the madelectrical bypass.
New looms, factory correct colouring are not that expensive. I did the engine bay on my charger and it makes it much easier knowing what you have got. dr.Worman swears by the painless looms too if you dont mind a bit of fettling - top quality and Ade knows his stuff.
That would be my 2c.

Post by **MattH** » Wed Jun 22, 16 7:04 pm

http://www.moparuk.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

Have a read of this thread, this worked for me to by pass the ammeter and bulkhead connector, and put a larger alternator cable in at the same time.

Garp · Post by **Garp** » Wed Jun 22, 16 7:34 pm

MattH wrote:http://www.moparuk.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=

Have a read of this thread, this worked for me to by pass the ammeter and bulkhead connector, and put a larger alternator cable in at the same time.

Thanks to all who helped - although id like a new "painless" loom I think all this info' will be a good start.
Off to Goodwood FOS tomorrow to show it off ...