Just think Will you could have a C body that's almost entirely practical...that will be novel!
More modern EFI engine into an old Mopar?
Moderator: Moderators
It can all be done!
Personally id steer clear of any modern mopar stuff, ive not been that impressed. Maybe im biased but an chevy LS1, 2, 3 or 7 would be a good and easy choice. But its not mopar, granted.
Ive thought about this on the roadrunner. If i was going to do it i would but electronic management onto the exsisting 383/440.
But, as daves link suggested id use the GM engine management system to operate it. Far far superior to any aftermarket management system and very cheap too. fully configarable with commercially available software. There isn't really anything it cant do. That way you get to keep the traditional mopar lump but get modern efficency. Back it up with a kiesler 4 speed auto conversion which is based round the GM 4l60e box and your GM management system will run that for you too. You can even buy off the shelf looms for the GM stuff. With that setup even with a 440 should turn in low 20's to the gallon.
Personally id steer clear of any modern mopar stuff, ive not been that impressed. Maybe im biased but an chevy LS1, 2, 3 or 7 would be a good and easy choice. But its not mopar, granted.
Ive thought about this on the roadrunner. If i was going to do it i would but electronic management onto the exsisting 383/440.
But, as daves link suggested id use the GM engine management system to operate it. Far far superior to any aftermarket management system and very cheap too. fully configarable with commercially available software. There isn't really anything it cant do. That way you get to keep the traditional mopar lump but get modern efficency. Back it up with a kiesler 4 speed auto conversion which is based round the GM 4l60e box and your GM management system will run that for you too. You can even buy off the shelf looms for the GM stuff. With that setup even with a 440 should turn in low 20's to the gallon.
E-Berg from Mopar Action did a series recently on his project Savoy for an inexpensive EFI, as well as the detail in the mags (you all get them right?) there is a link on the website with some info...http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/Savoy.html. Probably the easiest way, and for OK money.
As Dave said, it's been done many times and in many different ways. If you have the money you can get a F.A.S.T. system custom built to do everything you want. The absolute cheapest is Megasquirt where you can make up your own PCB's if you are so inclined. And there are many other kits or DIY inbetween.
My 2c:
- Don't do it if you think it will pay for itself as a fuel economy measure. It won't. However by all means do it for improved driveability and ease of tuning (although some people find 'old school' jet changing and distributor recurving easier - but as long as you are at home with a laptop my vote is for EFI)
- Don't bother with any CFI or batch injection systems - if you're going to bother at all then just go to SEFI
- Personally I wouldn't go to all the trouble for a system that was not fully configurable via a laptop, but that's just me - you could probably get 90% of the improvement with a less tunable system
- If you're going to do it I figure you might as well do it properly and do spark as well as fuel...but you don't have to.
It's one of the things to do that has been on my list the longest (prob 15-20 years!) but will be one of the last things to do.....I'm not even thinking about it until after the car is on the road! But I will do it for the fun of it.
I would definitely stay away from fitting a non Mopar, non V8 engine. That would be like tearing out your heart and soul - what you have left is an empty shell!! It might look pretty but it lost what made it special!
As Dave said, it's been done many times and in many different ways. If you have the money you can get a F.A.S.T. system custom built to do everything you want. The absolute cheapest is Megasquirt where you can make up your own PCB's if you are so inclined. And there are many other kits or DIY inbetween.
My 2c:
- Don't do it if you think it will pay for itself as a fuel economy measure. It won't. However by all means do it for improved driveability and ease of tuning (although some people find 'old school' jet changing and distributor recurving easier - but as long as you are at home with a laptop my vote is for EFI)
- Don't bother with any CFI or batch injection systems - if you're going to bother at all then just go to SEFI
- Personally I wouldn't go to all the trouble for a system that was not fully configurable via a laptop, but that's just me - you could probably get 90% of the improvement with a less tunable system
- If you're going to do it I figure you might as well do it properly and do spark as well as fuel...but you don't have to.
It's one of the things to do that has been on my list the longest (prob 15-20 years!) but will be one of the last things to do.....I'm not even thinking about it until after the car is on the road! But I will do it for the fun of it.
I would definitely stay away from fitting a non Mopar, non V8 engine. That would be like tearing out your heart and soul - what you have left is an empty shell!! It might look pretty but it lost what made it special!
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
Ideal combo!!Dave wrote:I quite fancy going the megasquirt route myself one day. But coupled with a procharger.........
That's when EFI really starts to make most sense for our cars - coupled with boosting etc, which starts to get tricky with carbs. Yes it can be done and many have, but EFI is a far better solution in those cases IMHO. A turbo or two might even be on the horizon for me eventually 
But in a floppy convertible I'll run out of rigidity long before horsepower if I did that.....and again, just getting the car on the road would be a start 
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
megasquirt and spark mini + wireing kit comes in at less than 300
to do the job
you will need to find 1 vauxhall omega 2 x ford fiesta and a ford/lincoln crown victoria.
from the omega
all sensors
water temp
TPS
o2 (or any bosch wide band)
fuel pump
this stuff is easier to use with megasquirt than ford stuff
from the fiesta
1 4 tower coil pack and igntion leads
1 coilpack connector (also known as mini timer connector) coil pack is bolted to top of engine. get the grey square condencer as well and its connector
as much of the wire loom you can unstitch that runs from the EDIS module on the bulkhead.
get the EDIS module as well and flog it on ebay
get the EDIS connector for spare parts
get the crank position senser it sticks through the engine mounting flange and faces a pattern 36-1 of holes in the back of the flywheel. get its connector and as much of the special heat sheilded 2 core tin foil sheathed wire
from the second fiesta get another coil pack and igntion leads
other potential cars for removal
probe earliest, mondeo earliest 6 cylinder 24 valve jobbie . the igntion leads on these have a plastic 3 piece frame to mount them in. its a good piece for a 6 cylinder. the ends may be of use on an 8
the EDIS on these is an EDIS 6 with green or orange label its mounted to the inner wing behind the drivers side headlamp
you are looking for 92-96 fords
off a crown victoria you need the EDIS 8 module no UK cars were EDIS 8 we only got 6 and 4
and you need the connector the EDIS 8 connector is keyed differently from the 4 and 6. a 6 connector would fit backwards in an 8 if you snapped off all the locktabs and reconfirgured the wires
EDIS 8 and EDIS 4 used the same coil packs which you can find here
some Mk 4 escorts used a bolt on steal plate trigger wheel on the front pully but very few never seen one
all moved to mount the trigger in the engin bellhousing flange
trigger wheels will provide a trigger wheel to you dimensions if you ask.
its hard to get this stuff if your local breakers is now moving over to counter service only based on registration or chassis number.
I have a New In Box EDIS 8 purchased for swapsies when i couldn't find an EDIS 6
I then got Loads of EDIS 6 when the majority of cars from the new Orleans hurricane started to be cleared away. the ford explorer had an EDIS 6 and loads of them got wrecked i found an ebay seller state side who owned a yard and had masses of the stuff....all a tad muddy
they are bullet proof the whole circuit is potted in silicone jelly
so if you need an EDIS 8 i can supply for what i paid but the hard part is the connector not the module.
current megasquirt has to use EDIS to drive ignition for a 6 or 8
you could go basic megasquirt for fuel and use the latest megajolt lite jnr
for ignition. it will when released negate the use of EDIS and can be tied in with any other system by configurable inputs and outputs. it has duel map capability, swap on the fly and can be configured while driving if you have 3 hands. it can also trigger shift lights exhaust cutouts nitrous etc based on rpm
i.e has greater feature list over the basic implementation used in the megasquirt. they both share the same orginal design
dave
to do the job
you will need to find 1 vauxhall omega 2 x ford fiesta and a ford/lincoln crown victoria.
from the omega
all sensors
water temp
TPS
o2 (or any bosch wide band)
fuel pump
this stuff is easier to use with megasquirt than ford stuff
from the fiesta
1 4 tower coil pack and igntion leads
1 coilpack connector (also known as mini timer connector) coil pack is bolted to top of engine. get the grey square condencer as well and its connector
as much of the wire loom you can unstitch that runs from the EDIS module on the bulkhead.
get the EDIS module as well and flog it on ebay
get the EDIS connector for spare parts
get the crank position senser it sticks through the engine mounting flange and faces a pattern 36-1 of holes in the back of the flywheel. get its connector and as much of the special heat sheilded 2 core tin foil sheathed wire
from the second fiesta get another coil pack and igntion leads
other potential cars for removal
probe earliest, mondeo earliest 6 cylinder 24 valve jobbie . the igntion leads on these have a plastic 3 piece frame to mount them in. its a good piece for a 6 cylinder. the ends may be of use on an 8
the EDIS on these is an EDIS 6 with green or orange label its mounted to the inner wing behind the drivers side headlamp
you are looking for 92-96 fords
off a crown victoria you need the EDIS 8 module no UK cars were EDIS 8 we only got 6 and 4
and you need the connector the EDIS 8 connector is keyed differently from the 4 and 6. a 6 connector would fit backwards in an 8 if you snapped off all the locktabs and reconfirgured the wires
EDIS 8 and EDIS 4 used the same coil packs which you can find here
some Mk 4 escorts used a bolt on steal plate trigger wheel on the front pully but very few never seen one
all moved to mount the trigger in the engin bellhousing flange
trigger wheels will provide a trigger wheel to you dimensions if you ask.
its hard to get this stuff if your local breakers is now moving over to counter service only based on registration or chassis number.
I have a New In Box EDIS 8 purchased for swapsies when i couldn't find an EDIS 6
I then got Loads of EDIS 6 when the majority of cars from the new Orleans hurricane started to be cleared away. the ford explorer had an EDIS 6 and loads of them got wrecked i found an ebay seller state side who owned a yard and had masses of the stuff....all a tad muddy
they are bullet proof the whole circuit is potted in silicone jelly
so if you need an EDIS 8 i can supply for what i paid but the hard part is the connector not the module.
current megasquirt has to use EDIS to drive ignition for a 6 or 8
you could go basic megasquirt for fuel and use the latest megajolt lite jnr
for ignition. it will when released negate the use of EDIS and can be tied in with any other system by configurable inputs and outputs. it has duel map capability, swap on the fly and can be configured while driving if you have 3 hands. it can also trigger shift lights exhaust cutouts nitrous etc based on rpm
i.e has greater feature list over the basic implementation used in the megasquirt. they both share the same orginal design
dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Interesting info Dave
The company I work for designed and made all that EDIS stuff (part of Ford at the time). I probably even had some in my desk that got thrown away at some stage
The company I work for designed and made all that EDIS stuff (part of Ford at the time). I probably even had some in my desk that got thrown away at some stage
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
aha well you may know who made the EDIS module connector
the rest of the stuff is mini timer connector used across fuel injected cars the world over but that EDIS connector seems to be unique to Ford.
Ive got all the gear + a megajolt V3 to install just not got the engine sorted yet
dave
the rest of the stuff is mini timer connector used across fuel injected cars the world over but that EDIS connector seems to be unique to Ford.
Ive got all the gear + a megajolt V3 to install just not got the engine sorted yet
dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying