Coil....

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Dec 15, 14 2:04 pm

Yes. And does he not say that a 12 volt coil draws about the same 3 amps that a mopar coil + resistor pulls as the higher voltage unit also has a higher internal resistance?

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Mon Dec 15, 14 2:24 pm

i think if you have the resistance in the coil or the resistance as a separate unit on the bulkhead it makes no odds

you still limit the current to a level appropriate for your switch... (points transistor, or whatever)

Dave

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Dec 15, 14 2:45 pm

The blaster coil might have a slightly lower resistance but I doubt it. I think it probably sacrifices current for a higher voltage output.

In any case. Short out the resistor and use your blaster coil ya fanny.

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Mon Dec 15, 14 3:34 pm

Indeed.

blast away

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Mon Dec 15, 14 9:02 pm

Dave wrote:The blaster coil might have a slightly lower resistance but I doubt it. I think it probably sacrifices current for a higher voltage output.

In any case. Short out the resistor and use your blaster coil ya fanny.

Just to be clear....

You mean Bypass the ballast and drop in the Blaster 2 coil will not fry the electronic ignition module?

I understand that at crank the car requires 12V to ignite, but when running the current Mopar system drops and uses 9V.

By bypassing the Ballast I now have (or should have), a constant 12V on both ignition crank and also run?

Trying to learn and understand, but I can't get my head around the fact the system will be running at 33% more than it was designed for, with no effect! Is it the fact that both systems run at around 3amps?
Thus the loading on the system is no different and fried wiring, EIM and fires are not a concern?

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Dec 15, 14 9:34 pm

The (outdated) system was basically designed to work with 6V coils, which you would cook if you hit it with 12V all day long, hence the Ballast - BUT the Ballast is bypassed during cranking (when the overall voltage in the system would probably drop as the Starter motor pulled 700 amps; so to give the car a better chance of firing (maybe in cold weather) it hit the 6V coil with 12V (probably about 10V in reality) for a very short period of time, then drop back when you release to key to the Ballast back in the circuit and less voltage applied to the coil..............

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Tue Dec 16, 14 12:40 pm

module takes 12 volts

blue wire bypasses balast resistor and become turquoise wire to module

its at 12 volts all the time

power to coil + is blue wire through balast to coil in run poistion

but yellow wire to coil in start

hence coil sees direct 12 volts in start

and reduced volts in run

module sees 12 volts all the time

balast eats volts to coil in run cos coil is 8 volt coil

take out balast and run standard is 12volt coil

no problemo

12 volt coil has ballast in built in coil

becasue it is built into it you can't bypass it without smahing the coil open and digging about in its guts.....not nice

either way all ok

don't run mopar box with very low resistance coil primary

blaster 2 is 0.7 ohm mopar box will get hot

it won't like that very much but it will work fine ....

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Coi ... mance.aspx

i'd use ballast with it unless i was usuing it with HEI module
that way the mopar box would last 100,000 miles

Note: This Blaster Coil Kit is intended to be used with an MSD Ignition. If installing on a stock, points style ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214 or the Blaster Coil Kits, PN 8200 and 8203 are equipped with one.

voltage to igntion module is not a problem.

so based on new found blaster 2 spec

run it with a balast if running it with mopar standard or orange

run it with no balast if using mopar chrome, FBO or HEI

if you want to run no balast use a coil from GSF car parts designed for a VW beetle they are £29 AD 1600 engine

at 7 quid + 7 quid postage the HEI module is tempting isn't it

a old style 12 volt coil had 1.5 ohm primary reisstance
an old style 8 volt coil had 0.8 ohm primary resitance + balast of 0.6-0.8
both used with points so both had to limit cuirrent flow to 3 amps

mopar eletronic is just a Bananarama! points eliminator for lazy people with no brass feelers who are crap at angles.... all the rest of the spec stays the same.

HEI achieved in 1976 what all of the other products achieved years later for low cost

runs a coil with 0.7/0.8 ohm primary resistance at 14.5 alternator at full tilt volatge relaibly without the module or coil melting

points to HEI leagues ahead

HEI to MSD 6 MMMmm ok only really necessary for Hi comp long duration cam race motors and access to some of the addons

this is for racing.... but buy a digital programmable one for $$$ or use ford EDIS for $$

aaarrgh its all a big big con

nothing changed until the advent of proper ECUs

6al is 1960s tech...all they did was made them impossible to repair

Dave

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Dec 16, 14 12:58 pm

Dave81 wrote:
Dave wrote:The blaster coil might have a slightly lower resistance but I doubt it. I think it probably sacrifices current for a higher voltage output.

In any case. Short out the resistor and use your blaster coil ya fanny.
Just to be clear....

You mean Bypass the ballast and drop in the Blaster 2 coil will not fry the electronic ignition module?

How more clear could I be? Which bit of short out the resistor and use the blaster coil does not make sense?

Voltage is just electrical "pressure".

Amps is the amount of electrical current flowing. Current is what will make anything heat up.

Resistance limits the amount of current flowing.

If resistance goes up - current flow goes down. To bring the current back up at that resistance you have to increase the pressure (Volts).

Truth is I don't know what the running resistance of the coil primary on the Blaster coil is.

But even if (worst case scenario) it is the same or lower than the low voltage coil you can still switch the coil primary with the orange box unit. At worst it may indeed get warmer and it's working life shortened. But it will do to test the system which is what I thought you were doing? You don't have to keep it that way. If there is no difference to how it runs just put the original coil back on and un-short the resistor again.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Dec 16, 14 1:21 pm

Dave has edited and expanded his reply above my last.

If the Blaster primary resistance is that low when running (hot is always more resistance than cold) then yes the orange box will have more current running through it so it will get hotter.

Still fine to test with though.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Dec 16, 14 1:24 pm

Did I see a post in another thread about the timing and mixture not being optimised on this engine yet?

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Tue Dec 16, 14 1:38 pm

Dave999
As always a great reply which breaks it down to my level (well just about)

Dave wrote: How more clear could I be? Which bit of short out the resistor and use the blaster coil does not make sense?

Could always use the term Bypass..........

Short to me means something else....hence I like to try and be as clear in my mind as I can........Use southern terminology please Dave!

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Dec 16, 14 1:44 pm

My bad English skills due to a lack of basic education. Please pardon my clumsy attempt at a written communication my dear chap.

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Tue Dec 16, 14 1:46 pm

Dave wrote:Dave has edited and expanded his reply above my last.

If the Blaster primary resistance is that low when running (hot is always more resistance than cold) then yes the orange box will have more current running through it so it will get hotter.

Still fine to test with though.

Cheers, so it will run slightly warmer. This is as I thought. No issue, just trying to understand!

Dave wrote:Did I see a post in another thread about the timing and mixture not being optimised on this engine yet?

You are correct.
Hence I've not touched any of the settings as to when it was running fine in warmer weather.

This is something I need to get my head around inc carb tuning.

I'm slowly going through the car part by part, putting decent quality parts on. This one was bodged quite a bit in the States. Hence I've found gaskets made from rubber floor mats, stuff that should be 2mm wide being 6 hence oil spraying everywhere, wiring with 6 crimp connectors in a small length of cable etc etc.

When I changed the plugs and leads I found it had 4 different plugs (manufacturer) at 2 different heat ranges complete with a mixed of leads.

I don't trust it (the car that is).....so doing it this way means I know what's where and that its to the right spec!!

Excuse my ignorance, but gotta start the learning process somewhere, as i'm from the electronic ignition (diagnostics tool, don't touch without a PhD) age.

I also find hands on teaching a lot easier and faster, but as the MMA mob are worldwide it aye so easy!!

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Dec 16, 14 3:15 pm

Don't change anything until the timing and mixture are right. You are wasting your time (and money) trying to find a fault that probably is not there.

The fact it coped OK in the warm and does not now in the cold means bugger-all if the timing and mixture are out.

Until the timing and mixture are right it could do anything in different conditions.

So my advice would be to stop buggering about until you get that sorted. Although matching plugs and good leads are an important start!

THEN see if you have any issues.

However, even when set up perfect for warm weather you will probably still find a bit of a bog in very cold weather when you floor it.

Carbs are not EFI systems. You either set them up for all year use such as the factory did, or you go for max performance and fuel economy in the summer months. Which is when you really want it.

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Tue Dec 16, 14 4:04 pm

sorry dave i edited it about 5 times
as things occured to me

didn't relasie there was anything following it

but yes

unless there is a problem i'd leave it all alone until i upgraded

mopar igntions work alright.. nothing particularly wrong other than the balast will eventually burn out when you don't have a spare and are at the furthest point from home.

I'm biased on the HEI front, cos its easy and cheap

Dave