Scottish Independence.

[Trigger_Andy]

Worth a read.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/c ... a.24468295

[CLPete]

I guess I can kind of see where you are coming from. But I dont think anyone agree's with it. We are not talking about movable assets like a Painting or Subs. Scotland wants nothing to do with Trident and taht will be one of the first things to go come a Yes vote. Trident, its Nukes and the Oil exploration would be the first things to go. rUK can keep its Nukes on its own land. Just now my family is within the Blast range should the Nukes Detonate. Not for me.

On the other hand do you think that if there wa no Oil in the North Sea Scotland could lay claim to a percentage of mineral rights after a split, for time indefinite? England cannot just own sections of Scottish waters. Would Scotland be entitled to a percentage of these minerals on par with the size of Scotland land mass, ie 33% of the UK's?

I dont even think that this is on the agenda if it was then Cameron and hos cronies would not be fighting tooth and nail for Scotland. If rUK could lay claim to patches of Scottish water they would be doing so now, as my previous picture showed they have already moved the 'border' to grab more oil. They would not need to do this if they could just say 'we want 90% of your oil.'

It's an interesting argument, as I'm not sure as to how assets will be "valued".

I would assume that it would be on population, rather than land space - after all, it is the population that has created the "assets" (even the mineral / oil assets - as in, created a "value" in them).

I'm not saying that it is about laying claim to patches of Scottish Water, but rather to an asset.

I can see what you are saying as well though - the oil is an unrealised asset as such. Take power generation - I would assume that Scotland will want the value of the power stations in the UK added up, and a share of that assigned to their "pot" so to speak. But that is a list of physical "things" that people have built, rather than something in the ground.

I wonder if items that are natural, such as the crown assets (lands) will come into the toting up then?

It's interesting, as assets that belong to the state will be added up, I would have thought. And these assets will have a subjective value dependent upon various things, such as the value of the land due to the minerals in it / items on it. Fishery rights? Shooting rights? Licenses for activities (such as revenue from commercial rights sold, such as leisure activity on lands owned by the government, down to leasing rights for things like mobile phone spectrum etc?). There are alot of items that generate money that have a "worth" that are based on "ownership" of an area / item.

So, I would have thought for example, that if a government department owned a large chunk of land, that "value" would go in the pot. If it so happened that the land held a huge timber plantation, or a large economically valuable coal deposit, the value of the land would reflect that. Why would the sea be any different?

British Coal, a private supplier, is generating revenue in rUK mostly. But, mining an asset in rUK. Would this coal have a value, and would it go in the pot, or would it be the property of rUK?

What would change, if coal suddenly became more valuable?

It's an interesting argument - what is included in the "list" of combined assets, and what isn't.

I'm not saying this to argue, as if it is a "yes" vote, I'm sure things will work out one way or another, but it is technically quite interesting.

[Jon Connolly]

Hi Andy

Not having a dig at you or the YES vote in any way, shape or form but merely questioning the accuracy of the claim to be 14th richest per person country in the world, prior to any apportioning exercise having been carried out.


This claim is unsubstantiated spin and doesn`t stand on its own merits.


As are countless claims made by the NO campaign, including businesses would relocate after a YES vote ... they wouldn`t !! ... they may change the way they price business in Scotland over a period of time, they may prefer to recruit south of the border in future ... BUT THEY WOULD NOT FLEE THE DAY AFTER A YES VOTE.



So, do you know upon which research the 14th richest claim is made ????????

[Trigger_Andy]

Scotland has huge amounts of Coal. Anyway, I dont have the figures and as you say time will tell, and that if we get the Yes vote.

Could start a chain reaction though. Would Wales and N. Ireland want Independence too? Could they sustain themselves as we could?

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10 ... nt-nation/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... -says.html

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home ... s.23844872

[Trigger_Andy]

I'm not taking any of this personally. I do like a bit of banter though so its all good. At least on my own thread the delicate flowers on here cant complain about me hijacking theirs.

Ok, say the 14th richest country thing is wrong. What real difference would it make? The spin ,outright lies and breaking of laws coming out of Westminster are simply staggering. But you have alluded to this already.

I dont have the figures to hand but as you are so keen on crunching the numbers I'll get then for you.

Hi Andy

Not having a dig at you or the YES vote in any way, shape or form but merely questioning the accuracy of the claim to be 14th richest per person country in the world, prior to any apportioning exercise having been carried out.


This claim is unsubstantiated spin and doesn`t stand on its own merits.


As are countless claims made by the NO campaign, including businesses would relocate after a YES vote ... they wouldn`t !! ... they may change the way they price business in Scotland over a period of time, they may prefer to recruit south of the border in future ... BUT THEY WOULD NOT FLEE THE DAY AFTER A YES VOTE.



So, do you know upon which research the 14th richest claim is made ????????

[Dave81]

I'm not taking any of this personally. I do like a bit of banter though so its all good. At least on my own thread the delicate flowers on here cant complain about me hijacking theirs.

Ok, say the 14th richest country thing is wrong. What real difference would it make? If your 150th I'd think it would be quite a difference?

The spin ,outright lies and breaking of laws coming out of Westminster are simply staggering. Do you really believe the Scottish government will be any different?? I know of no politicians (in the world this is) that are not out for outright power or to further feather there already fat nest! Salmond and his henchmen will be no different.........I warn thee!!!

The richer get richer and the poorer get poorer its the ratio of that, that will determine if Scotland succeeds or fails!

I dont have the figures to hand but as you are so keen on crunching the numbers I'll get then for you.

Hi Andy

Not having a dig at you or the YES vote in any way, shape or form but merely questioning the accuracy of the claim to be 14th richest per person country in the world, prior to any apportioning exercise having been carried out.


This claim is unsubstantiated spin and doesn`t stand on its own merits.


As are countless claims made by the NO campaign, including businesses would relocate after a YES vote ... they wouldn`t !! ... they may change the way they price business in Scotland over a period of time, they may prefer to recruit south of the border in future ... BUT THEY WOULD NOT FLEE THE DAY AFTER A YES VOTE.



So, do you know upon which research the 14th richest claim is made ????????

[Jon Connolly]

Andy



How would an independent Scotland with a new currency guard against a currency collapse like Norweigan Krone did in 2013. It`s value is 1/12 of what it was compared to £



I know you like the Norweigan model

http://brontecapital.blogspot.co.uk/200 ... rency.html



Out of interest is your company confident enough to pay you in Norweigan KR or do they pay you in a nice stable currency like £ or $ ????

[Dave999]

have just seen an article indicating that spain and belgium would try to block an independent scotland from joining the EU due to fear of unrest from their own pro independence minorities...

YES is risky

much like jacking in ya job before you have tried to find a new one

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-eur ... out-308434

no "standing" on the world stage
no currency
no ability to borrow
no backing for your banks when the financial collapse occurs
no friendly neighbour to bail you out

its gonna be lonely and cold


but on a plus note could be a nice way to avoid some tax and import duty when importing an american car, via scotland to england

see... my glass is half full

dave

[Jon Connolly]

And they make this, which I prefer to any English produced fruit drink ( except Ribena )

[Trigger_Andy]

Dave, to be honest unless you come back with some evidence for why Scotland would be placed at 150th place I'll not bother spending too much time replying to your comments.

Yes, Politicians are bad and generally are only in it for themselves. But Id rather have 3-4 parties in Scotland offering Scottish incentives to vote for them instead of Englishcentric parties that want to appeal to only the English and the real voter base. Surely you can see that?

I'm not taking any of this personally. I do like a bit of banter though so its all good. At least on my own thread the delicate flowers on here cant complain about me hijacking theirs.

Ok, say the 14th richest country thing is wrong. What real difference would it make? If your 150th I'd think it would be quite a difference?

The spin ,outright lies and breaking of laws coming out of Westminster are simply staggering. Do you really believe the Scottish government will be any different?? I know of no politicians (in the world this is) that are not out for outright power or to further feather there already fat nest! Salmond and his henchmen will be no different.........I warn thee!!!

The richer get richer and the poorer get poorer its the ratio of that, that will determine if Scotland succeeds or fails!

I dont have the figures to hand but as you are so keen on crunching the numbers I'll get then for you.

Hi Andy

Not having a dig at you or the YES vote in any way, shape or form but merely questioning the accuracy of the claim to be 14th richest per person country in the world, prior to any apportioning exercise having been carried out.


This claim is unsubstantiated spin and doesn`t stand on its own merits.


As are countless claims made by the NO campaign, including businesses would relocate after a YES vote ... they wouldn`t !! ... they may change the way they price business in Scotland over a period of time, they may prefer to recruit south of the border in future ... BUT THEY WOULD NOT FLEE THE DAY AFTER A YES VOTE.



So, do you know upon which research the 14th richest claim is made ????????

[Trigger_Andy]

I had a look at your link Jon, I presume its just one you found after a quick google search?

Having lived in Norway for the last 5 years I can honestly say that the 'Norwegian Banking Disaster' was a non event. It was never really a main headline unlike what was happening throughout the UK and the rest of the world. The Banks never went into meltdown like the UK. No Banks collapsed. Lending although had tighter restrictions carried on as per usual. There is a much more relaxed attitude to lending here. Its very easy to get a loan here and always has been with many deals carried out with a quick call to your local bank manager. I needed an extra £50k for house renovations, boom, done in a day.

Did the Kroner collapse in 2013? I sure never noticed. Are sure you are not looking at the figures the wrong way around? In 2013 I could get £12 for every 100nok now this has dropped to £9.60 so the Kroner is actually weaker that before.

Anyway, what makes you sure we would have our own currency when it has been made clear we can continue to use the GBP backed up by the Bank of England?

The vid below is from the Govenor of the Bank of England, worth a watch.



I'm paid in NOK.


If you have FB watch this vid, its not made by the SNP or the YES campaign.
The Claire Field has much more Oil that I had first though, but it makes sence we where lied to. 8 Billion Barrels at 250,000 barrels per day for the next 87 years. Thats just one field in the West Of Shetland. I think you are seriously underestimating what Oil could and will do for Scotland and why rUK is so worried.




If you look at the picture what Scotland currently generates is clearly laid out. The actual number crunching is in the White Paper, you'll have to do your own research on this if you want to disprove them. But going by the atricle below I'd highly doubt what Westminster is spewing out, remember, these are non-biased reports.

http://78.110.165.228/index.php/scottis ... king-giant


http://www.yesscotland.net/news/scotlan ... dependence

Andy



How would an independent Scotland with a new currency guard against a currency collapse like Norweigan Krone did in 2013. It`s value is 1/12 of what it was compared to £



I know you like the Norweigan model

http://brontecapital.blogspot.co.uk/200 ... rency.html



Out of interest is your company confident enough to pay you in Norweigan KR or do they pay you in a nice stable currency like £ or $ ????

[Trigger_Andy]

Check out the article below Dave;

http://archive.today/eD3YZ

I think the people of Scotland are willing to take the Risk. Cameron and the other three 'Leaders' have made it clear that a YES vote is pantamonut to a very bitter divorce. There will be no going back. SO there really is no need to worry about Scotland coming back on bended knee looking for hand-outs. It would never happen anyway as Scotland will be much better off than England anyway.


I've covered your other 'points' below in red.

have just seen an article indicating that spain and belgium would try to block an independent scotland from joining the EU due to fear of unrest from their own pro independence minorities...

YES is risky

much like jacking in ya job before you have tried to find a new one

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-eur ... out-308434

no "standing" on the world stage. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/5b5ec2ca ... tml#slide0

no currency

no ability to borrow http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/re ... dit-rating

no backing for your banks when the financial collapse occurs
no friendly neighbour to bail you out See the 'no currency' above.

its gonna be lonely and cold. Yes, England is increasingly finding itself isolated. Wales will be looking for a referendum next.


but on a plus note could be a nice way to avoid some tax and import duty when importing an american car, via scotland to england

see... my glass is half full

dave

[Trigger_Andy]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/bu ... a.24925660

[Trigger_Andy]

If Norway can do it there is no reason why Scotland cannot either. Scotland does not have to go to such draconian measures though.

[Jon Connolly]

If Norway can do it there is no reason why Scotland cannot either. Scotland does not have to go to such draconian measures though.

As you know better than all of us Norway and Scandinavia is very highly taxed. I understand that Norway has the equivalent of a large sovereign wealth fund that everybody invests in ... I don`t know if " culturally " that level of taxation would sit well with the Scots ???

A couple more days and we`ll all know