Layson's restorations get arrested at Carlisle

TonyO · Post by **TonyO** » Thu Jul 17, 08 8:09 pm

I guess with a carb, you could argue that Carter went out of business, Holley stepped in and the Edelbrock folks made a replacement. I think that Chrysler are coming from the angle of miss reprsentatation, sure you should never pass off a car as an original when it clearly is not.However if you CHANGE the car from say a 68 Coronet 318 to a 68 Super Bee with a 383 then, YES you are liable to be prosecuted as you have changed a factory car to another factory car, that the facvtory NEVER built. I do not think its a " pass it on as sold as" situation. This is much deeper. lets just look at the US auto industry at the mo, its in melt down, get your lawyers out there making money. Thats the crutch. The ONLY folks who are safe are those with total matching numbers cars, these will increase in value, just by being pukka!
If you own a clone BEWARE.
Would like to see where Chrysler UK stand on this point and their understanding of the situation.

newport100 · Post by **newport100** » Thu Jul 17, 08 8:38 pm

Tony

are you saying that someone has actually been prosecuted by Mopar for rebadging a car or creating a clone or is this all supposition??

TonyO · Post by **TonyO** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:00 pm

Lets put it this way.if you have built a car as a clone, then yes you are in trouble...you have changed te car from its factory original specs to another car with different specs, ie that MOPAR did not build. I feel if you have/ own/built a clone, under the latest guidelines you are FRAUDS. this only applies to DODGE vehicles as PLYMOUTH is no more.
I would be worried. My 69 Coronet is not a fraud, its got a Mopar mega engine but I have not changed its originality as a 69 Coronet 500.
The problem lies with a example 68 Charger 318 / 383 originally then a 440 is addd and the car suddenly has a RT stripe and RT badges....this clearly is a FRAUD...
Therefore you have committed a fraud by changing a car into something it is not when it left the factory,....its not Rocket Science. We have changed the peramators not Chrysler.!!!!
Don't matter if a 68 Charger with a 440 and the vin screams 318 ,,,...then that is FRAUD SIMPLE'.
Guys be Carefull ther Mopar Police are after you.

Post by **TyreFryer** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:19 pm

So...

1. As Newport100 asked, has anybody actually been successfuly prosecuted by Chrysler for this.

2. You can only be committing fraud if you are selling the car as something it isn't. If you aren't selling it you aren't committing a fraudulent act, nor would you be if you sold it to somebody and stated clearly that it was a clone.

...surely?

(Are we just talking about the USA here, thought Tony said we need to be worried if we have a clone)?

latil · Post by **latil** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:31 pm

Looks like something slipped through Barrett-Jackson for big $$ and it wasn't quite what it appeared.That's the sort of thing that would get them looking.

newport100 · Post by **newport100** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:40 pm

TyreFryer wrote:So...

2. You can only be committing fraud if you are selling the car as something it isn't. If you aren't selling it you aren't committing a fraudulent act, nor would you be if you sold it to somebody and stated clearly that it was a clone.

...surely?

)?

Im no lawyer but I think if you sold someone a car telling them it was something it is not- that is fraud and you are liable to fraud charges and sued by the buyer etc
- and quite right too

I cannot see the day when you get done for cloning a car that you own as long as you are not trying to pass it off as something it is not.

The Laysons thing is entirely different - I cannot sympathise with him if hes was marking products with Chryslers copyrighted trademarks and even boxing them up in Mopar packaging and passing them of as NOS- Thats no different to the dodgy DVD guy down the pub or the bloke selling knock off designer labels at a car boot

asking for trouble- im surprised he has got away with it for so long !

TonyO · Post by **TonyO** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:40 pm

Just remember this
The GREAT Club MMA you folk belong to.........was a Mopar target
YES they tried to close the mma down

BE Afraid be VERY Afraid
Ma MOPAR is after the Non Original owner, do they have a point in law, YES probably
Please be carefull, Ma mopar is not happy about ANY miss-representation of its original ( Dodge ) product.
Why do you think the MoparEuroNats changed the logo. WE HAD TOO!!!!

newport100 · Post by **newport100** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:42 pm

Tony

This is before my time as a member- were you using Chrysler Logos/trademarks etc as part of the site?

Post by **TyreFryer** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:50 pm

newport100 wrote:Im no lawyer but I think if you sold someone a car telling them it was something it is not- that is fraud and you are liable to fraud charges and sued by the buyer etc
- and quite right too

I said completely the opposite i.e. if you told them what that it was a clone.

newport100 · Post by **newport100** » Thu Jul 17, 08 9:57 pm

Exactly Martin- I was agreeing - sorry - I realise that was none too clear on my part

To clarify- as long as you are up front when selling a clone on - I cant see a problem or any issues with Mopar / Chrysler etc

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 17, 08 10:11 pm

I think you've all missed the real issue here???

Laysons were/are the dearest sellers around, and they were arrested by the FAIR PRICE POLICE!!!!!!!!

I have found all my resto parts cheaper from the source of maufacture, it just takes a while longer tracking stuff down.

Was comparing Chinese repro prices against Mother Mopar stuff, at the Spring Fling, and guess what, most of the US stuff was better and CHEAPER!!!!!

Bacca.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Jul 17, 08 10:28 pm

TonyO wrote:Lets put it this way.if you have built a car as a clone, then yes you are in trouble...you have changed te car from its factory original specs to another car with different specs, ie that MOPAR did not build. I feel if you have/ own/built a clone, under the latest guidelines you are FRAUDS.

what guidelines are these?
I cant see them having any legal claim on what you do with something after you've bought it...
Passing a non r/t off as an r/t may be fraud, but again...its none of their business and i've never heard of any conditions placed on a car sale dictating what you do with it...I'm no lawyer but just cant see that holding water..
It certainy wouldn't wash in this country and I doubt they'd even bother trying it here, after all they never sold the cars here...are they going to try and chase down every dodge in the world?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jul 18, 08 8:15 am

We all know that some purists have never EVER liked clones, so I suppose they are happy about whats going on as originallity is being enforced in law rather than through prejudice amongst owners.

Oh, and my car could never have come with white seats with red piping as that was never a 'factory option' so I guess I'm up shat creek too, and I don't have the original fan belts, washer fluid, plugs leads, dizzy cap...

Whatever way you cut it, people don't get arrested unless there are grounds to do so in law (irrespective of how FAIR or unfair the layman believes those grounds to be). I would be reluctant to believe anything written on this issue, unless I had the case transcript IN MY HAND.

Its all a load of old cobblers IMHO

latil · Post by **latil** » Fri Jul 18, 08 8:26 am

How true Clivey.

If all goes to plan my humble euro export,only one in UK 318 Sport Fury is going to become a never built S23 or GT.

Why the hell would anyone want ancient date coded brake parts that are 40 years old? Unless of course they were made in China last year and the numbers added to fool people.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jul 18, 08 8:28 am

latil wrote: Unless of course they were made in China last year and the numbers added to fool people.

Come come Steve, who would ever do such a thing

For some odd reason, this point as not been adressed in any of the posts. Was this practice ACTUALLY being employed?

Mopar Muscle Association UK

Layson's restorations get arrested at Carlisle

laysons

laysons

laysons

Re: laysons