69 charger suspension upgrade

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Fri Dec 07, 12 9:28 am

I think if I had a race car I would rather it could handle if it got out of shape.

But drag cars are all about reducing rolling resistance and weight transfer.

I think I would rather compromise that just to keep a car pointing the way it is moving and the right way up when things get out of hand.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Dec 07, 12 10:18 am

The reality is that you have to design it so it does not go out of shape in the first place, if it does then you are largely on your own............I don't see how having the right amount of camber will save you if you are heading towards the wall sideways.............you can always lift off.....

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Fri Dec 07, 12 11:13 am

Mine was basically stock, with a manual steering box, all new rubber bushings at the front and polyuerthane at the rear with KYB gas adjust shocks.

It was eminently chuckable for a big car and I had it off the clock on a number of occasions and it always ran straight and true and never for once felt unsafe.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Dec 07, 12 11:37 am

I DO take Duncan's point that a badly set up (i.e. Stock settings from America) is VERY poor on the UK streets.

I have also driven Mopars with worn front end suspension and they were genuinely scary to drive and uncontrollable at 50mph - following road ruts, etc. They would certainly put you off driving at speed.

Combine that with Drums that pull a different way each time you brake and it is a very scary experience!!!

This is not helped when people then try to drive them like new modern cars...........or people around you expect you to stop on a sixpence!

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Fri Dec 07, 12 11:59 am

i drove back from the nats in heavy rain with a visble inch or so of toe out

rates as one of the most stressful drives ive done, although the greasy raod probably saved me some tred on the inner edges

wacked in max + caster and aligned the wheels with "the book" toe in

smashin

i didn't find anything to indicate that my car and its front end mountings had been set up for a cambered road. however as it wa sthe first time i'd used the tools Matt lent me i wasn't as precise as i could have been due to not having rebuilt it yet

Dave

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Fri Dec 07, 12 12:28 pm

Pete wrote:I DO take Duncan's point that a badly set up (i.e. Stock settings from America) is VERY poor on the UK streets.

I have also driven Mopars with worn front end suspension and they were genuinely scary to drive and uncontrollable at 50mph - following road ruts, etc. They would certainly put you off driving at speed.

Combine that with Drums that pull a different way each time you brake and it is a very scary experience!!!

This is not helped when people then try to drive them like new modern cars...........or people around you expect you to stop on a sixpence!

Maybe mines not so bad then.

Sure, there is about 1/8th turn 'play' in the steering - but at no point does if feel 'uncontrollable'. Doesnt appear to follow ruts etc - just a bit 'vague' (well, very vague - but no worse than my old RX7 - which also has recirculating ball steering box). I'm not hoping for miracles, but if rebusing it all makes it feel any tighter at all then I think Im happy. I only thud about the place anyway - I aint looking to reproduce the DoH on the streets of Berko...

Good point ref the braking. I learned LONG ago to drive very defensively. No problem to lock the wheels up - its just the car will continue at the same rate anyway whether the wheels are turning or not... Still - I always say she is built for beauty, not agility.

drewcrane · Post by **drewcrane** » Fri Dec 07, 12 12:46 pm

I can only imagine if you bought a car from the states and the front end was set up for the states it must drive very poorly,

with out a proper alignment for the crown of the road for driving on the left side of the road ,the car will never drive right

Here my specs off the alignment machine

before and after

camber before : - 0.4 left right -0.2 right /after 0.5 left 0.6 right

Castor 2.5 left 3.3 right /after 3.9 left 4.4 right

Toe 0.13 left 0.14 right/after 0.13 left 0.15 right

obviously the opposite would be needed for your roads

Myself and the alignment guru agree this is not an exact science as these cars vary in dimensions quite a bit so just getting it close is usually good enough for government work

the car drives very nice no play in the wheel and slow speeds are easy turning and high speeds have very minimal bump steer

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Dec 07, 12 3:06 pm

Drewe - as stated above - the one aspect that makes the most difference is getting as much caster in as possible. That is the biggest change you made

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Fri Dec 07, 12 3:29 pm

Pete. Try throwing a big block mopar around a really fast, tight corner with no negative camber and see how far you get. It will understeer like mad.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Dec 07, 12 4:06 pm

You won't get to a corner fast if you can't keep it in a straight line in the first place, and thereby is the problem - you can't achieve both particularly well with the stock suspension parts.............it is an old car designed to work with 14" wheels and rock hard tyres...........

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Fri Dec 07, 12 4:14 pm

I don't remember ever having a problem driving in a straight line?

I used to cruise at 90mph in the Challenger and the only time it ever tended to wander a little was on the inside lane on sections of road that were badly rutted due to HGV traffic. Probably more to do with the massive width of my tyres.
And at 90mph you tend not to be in that lane anyway.

Adrian Worman · Post by **Adrian Worman** » Fri Dec 07, 12 5:47 pm

My Chally has those Hotchkis 1.03" bars Morgan, they worked brilliantly. You'll need some really good shocks to go with them tho, probably QA-1s or similar quality.
I don't even run a front sway bar and my ride height is fairly low but even with an all iron motor up front it squirts thru the roundabouts that litter Milton Keynes without any noticeable roll. Steering feels ok but over assisted, dialled in plenty of camber and caster to DaveR soec and its very stable but still turns in quick enough.
Poly bushed all round and I'd like to drop a FirmFeel box in but aside from that its pretty good.
Modern tyres and rims make a massive difference to grip of course, be even better with the big rims goin on soon.
..........brakes are Bananarama! awful tho

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Fri Dec 07, 12 10:03 pm

Dave999 wrote:Roger did you try this before you chop up a wheel

No, but it is on the "to do" list.

I cant make up my mind about the firm feel boxes. Strikes me as tackling the wrong area. But ive never tried one so could well be wrong.

I think if most people here drove my charger they would consider it pretty good for an old mopar, but im a long way from happy with its steering.

Its actually better at high speed on a motorway. Its on your average A road it annoys me. You just constantly working to keep the car where it should be. I.e. nothing like a modern car. But then my modern car has a rack and 9 degrees of castor! The charger a bit over 1 degree.

Mmmmm, what to do.......................

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Fri Dec 07, 12 10:05 pm

drewcrane wrote:I can only imagine if you bought a car from the states and the front end was set up for the states it must drive very poorly,

with out a proper alignment for the crown of the road for driving on the left side of the road ,the car will never drive right

Here my specs off the alignment machine

before and after

camber before : - 0.4 left right -0.2 right /after 0.5 left 0.6 right

Castor 2.5 left 3.3 right /after 3.9 left 4.4 right

Toe 0.13 left 0.14 right/after 0.13 left 0.15 right

obviously the opposite would be needed for your roads

Myself and the alignment guru agree this is not an exact science as these cars vary in dimensions quite a bit so just getting it close is usually good enough for government work

the car drives very nice no play in the wheel and slow speeds are easy turning and high speeds have very minimal bump steer

4.4 degrees of castor! Thats what i need!

drewcrane · Post by **drewcrane** » Fri Dec 07, 12 11:07 pm

Roger wrote:
drewcrane wrote:I can only imagine if you bought a car from the states and the front end was set up for the states it must drive very poorly,

with out a proper alignment for the crown of the road for driving on the left side of the road ,the car will never drive right

Here my specs off the alignment machine

before and after

camber before : - 0.4 left right -0.2 right /after 0.5 left 0.6 right

Castor 2.5 left 3.3 right /after 3.9 left 4.4 right

Toe 0.13 left 0.14 right/after 0.13 left 0.15 right

obviously the opposite would be needed for your roads

Myself and the alignment guru agree this is not an exact science as these cars vary in dimensions quite a bit so just getting it close is usually good enough for government work

the car drives very nice no play in the wheel and slow speeds are easy turning and high speeds have very minimal bump steer

4.4 degrees of castor! Thats what i need!

This set up is not very expensive ,and well worth it