Ignition retarding at high rpm

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Thu Oct 30, 08 12:33 pm

Pete, you know I'm right with you on the old school look with dual quads and a tunnel ram, I'm doing the same, but one thing I am adding is a sensor and an AFR meter, it's my only concession to new technology together with electronic ignition.

The AFR figures will give you a much clearer picture of what's happening and the solutions open to you with jets, pump shots and timing curves.

Interesting thread though, I love it when Dave and Adam talk technical...

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Oct 30, 08 12:47 pm

I am sticking an AFR on the Sox and will see how that goes - it would appear to be a good idea. I will see how that goes , and then maybe add one to Julie's car.

I just think you like it when people talk dirty....

AllKiller · Post by **AllKiller** » Thu Oct 30, 08 1:07 pm

TPS, IAC and MAF will help too

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Thu Oct 30, 08 1:14 pm

And with that LM-2 meter you can record (data log) what has happened every second of a run and replay it back on your laptop.

If you want to run professional speeds you need to run it professionally.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Thu Oct 30, 08 1:15 pm

surely thats the simple answer then pete, launch it with a lot off timing and have the timing retarded at a certain rpm in top for the long haul to the big end, you cant do a lot with the fuel issues so as a certain man would say use it as a bandaid,

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Oct 30, 08 1:27 pm

Cannonball wrote:surely thats the simple answer then pete, launch it with a lot off timing and have the timing retarded at a certain rpm in top for the long haul to the big end, you cant do a lot with the fuel issues so as a certain man would say use it as a bandaid,

This is EXACTLY why I started the thread

However, I have no automatic means of taking the timing out in top.....it may be a switch at the end of the day....

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Thu Oct 30, 08 2:18 pm

There's a hole in my bucket.....

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Thu Oct 30, 08 2:19 pm

Full ECU control?

Meagasquirt n spark or emerald ECU

Jenvey70 mm throttle bodies or 8 smaller off a bike(s)

drill N tap ya inlet weld on injector bosses direct spray at the back of the valve fuel rail fuel pump n regulator water n head temp oil temp MAP 02 wide band and TPS.

run your MSD from it

write a map for every air pressure and temp

Job done nobody else here has done it..think of the prestige and the glamor.

Dave

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Thu Oct 30, 08 2:43 pm

Pete wrote:
Cannonball wrote:surely thats the simple answer then pete, launch it with a lot off timing and have the timing retarded at a certain rpm in top for the long haul to the big end, you cant do a lot with the fuel issues so as a certain man would say use it as a bandaid,
This is EXACTLY why I started the thread

However, I have no automatic means of taking the timing out in top.....it may be a switch at the end of the day....

i hate the electric side off things, but surely pete you could have a switch on the shifter that lets an msd retard know your in top gear and then that retards the timing x amount at a given rpm but only in top?????????????
and by the way i think we have all run pretty good usin then old tech

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Thu Oct 30, 08 2:51 pm

Cannonball wrote: i think we have all run pretty good usin then old tech

i don't disagree

just flinging another option into the mix

mind none of you run points!!! tech of similar vintage init

Dave

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Thu Oct 30, 08 2:54 pm

Exactly. MSD units "Old Skool"? Get the dual points distributors in there.

AllKiller · Post by **AllKiller** » Thu Oct 30, 08 6:44 pm

Pete wrote:[This is EXACTLY why I started the thread

However, I have no automatic means of taking the timing out in top.....it may be a switch at the end of the day....

Even MSD say use a switch Manually
Use a momentary switch
so you can release at any point easily.
Mount it on the Wheel, both hands where they should be after top gear selection @ 140+

Or use a Long arm Micro switch mounted to work Mechanically when the shifter goes into 3rd.... easy.
You could also put a manual switch in between, so you can run with it on or off to see results

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 30, 08 7:08 pm

Why not just tune the carb properly?

When you pulled the plugs last time the motor was running lean , it was suggested to up the mains 2 sizes.............was there a fuel ring on the porcelaine after pulling the plugs on the next pass? , if the fuel ring shows no obvious signs of fattening up & the MPH stays the same then maybe the carb is too big for the motor or the HSABs need blowing out or modifying.

This is a tuning issue so get tuning , or get a headache with all the tech bein posted.

Not gonna bust yer balls ever again Steve , i promise.

AllKiller · Post by **AllKiller** » Thu Oct 30, 08 7:44 pm

You aint Adam, water and Ducks back spring to mind
I quite enjoy it
You cant tune for all the events of the engine
If your lean at the start and fat at the top, or vise versa, you can only tune out one event on a carb motor, if those are its caracteristics..... to cover them all you need Modern F.I.
Or a BIG Wallet and plenty of track time
Without you are just shifting the fault around to another point, which may be beneficial at the start or mid or top end, but have a negative effect elsewhere

To use your saying.... Bandaid only moving it from your leg to your arm

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 30, 08 7:55 pm

The pump shots are doin 90 percent of the work on the 60 fts , rest is P/S jetting , adjustments to high speed air bleeds (HSABs) helps a bunch too.

Get the pump shots dialed in right , correct P/S jetting , right plugs for the combo , correct spark lead , HSABs , right size carb..........................no need to faf around with timing.