Mopar Muscle Association UK

check out my python.....

Hemi was only about 12ft long when i was last on these forums, unfortunately he died recently but his new keeper sent me this vid to show me how he'd grown...

SORRY HUGH, that stuff does nowt for me leave the things where they belong out in there own habitat, just cant see the reason to have such things

Cannonball wrote:SORRY HUGH, that stuff does nowt for me leave the things where they belong out in there own habitat, just cant see the reason to have such things

you've not watched it, have you!

you little bstard hugh lol that made me jump out me seat

Missed it, I fell asleep by the time it got to the end of the snake
Got to agree with Dunc though, the exotic pet trade has a lot to answer for

DrogoBroadband wrote:Missed it, I fell asleep by the time it got to the end of the snake
Got to agree with Dunc though, the exotic pet trade has a lot to answer for

it's not my python

Hemi was re-homed when i got divorced in 2001, to my knowledge he's still happily sloping about in a 25ft x 9ft x 7ft centrally heated vivarium with two other pythons.

if an exotic is well cared for and looked after, it's no different to keeping any other kind of animal, a horse? fish (tropical and koi, neither are native), dogs?

i wouldn't mind more dogs and cats suffer than exotics!

I knew you would say that Hugh
This is what I am referring to
http://www.captiveanimals.org/news/2008 ... heet1.html
http://www.susanmcclelland.com/art_animal.htm

Your not a menber of PETA are you Drogo?

The Mail had a artical on them today stating that they only found 7 pets homes last year. And since 1998 they have put down more than 20,000 animals.
Reserch Director for 'The Center for Consumer Frodom' David Amrtosko is quoted as saying ''PETA hasn't slowed down its hypocritical killing machine but keeps browbeating the rest of society with a phony 'Animal Rights' message.''
The CCF have attempted to have PETA's main office in Virginia reclassified as a slaughterhouse.

DrogoBroadband wrote:I knew you would say that Hugh
This is what I am referring to
http://www.captiveanimals.org/news/2008 ... heet1.html
http://www.susanmcclelland.com/art_animal.htm

i take your point about wild caught, it's not good, and i would never condone the captivity of big cats in a home type environment, zebras, wildebeast etc grey area i guess and we've domesticated other bovine and equine species.

i was involved quite heavily at one point, a local pet shop where the owner was a specialist reptologist (type of word)with a degree and all. the animals welfare was paramount and i often had sick reptiles at home which he'd rescued. he had some reptiles (mainly lizards) so rare in their native habitats that he probably did more for them as a species by breeding them than the native farmers who destroy their habitats!

i guess it's like anything, if the owner is responsible and looks after the animals welfare with suitable enclosures, basic needs, etc. then it can be acceptable to most, but then there are those who are neglegent who would cause some level of suffering to any kind of animal they kept.

Hugh

Trigger_Andy wrote:Your not a menber of PETA are you

PETA are evil. the antichrist, they'd have you lot out of fossil burning cars with cow skin and poluting engines, just as soon as they'd stop me hooking poor defenceless cod for me tea!

No Andy, I am a member of the Dave McBride's Crusade Against Animal Cruelty and Neglect, but I do support their views on many instances of animal cruelty. Anyway, never believe what you read in the papers - that was written deliberately to put PETA in a bad light

Here's the supposed PDF that proves those figures.
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/downloa ... nimals.pdf
Lets take dogs for instance:
From page 1: 3317 total dogs. From page 2: 2716 dogs were RECLAIMED BY OWNER 4 were adopted, 21 moved to another facility and 555 euthanized.
Ok so 555 out of 3317 dogs were euthanized. That's 17% not 95%. They were probably beyond human help.
Take the totals: 10,016 animals. 7525 were reclaimed by owner, 59 were adopted, 34 were moved, etc.
2369 were euthanized out of 10,016.
Thats 23%. Not 95%.
They get to 95% by ignoring the nearly THOUSANDS that go back to their owners, then if you subtract out those THOUSANDS and everyone who got transferred or misc stuff, then you can make it look like they kill 95%...
The site conveniently fails to acknowledge that PETA did in fact return almost 80% of the animals in their care to their rightful owners.


Sorry to break it to you like that Andy

Hugh, breeding animals unaturally in captivity in a foreign environment is no solution to their endangerment. It would be far better to prevent the cause of their decline in the first place...more often than not caused by mankind exploiting them for financial gain. It is as simple as this - if no one wore fur there would be no fur trade. If people didn't hanker after exotic pets, these animals could be left alone to get on with their natural lives in their native country with only their natural predators to worry about. What kind of life does a Humming Bird have, trussed up and stuck in a cigarette packet along with 10 others to get through customs. Nine of them will probably be dead when they reach their destination, and the other two caged for life, a very short life.

I own a Cobra

Its very high maintenance and eats petrol and Oil like its going out of fashion! but i love her!

Trigger_Andy wrote:Your not a menber of PETA are you Drogo?

The Mail had a artical on them today stating that they only found 7 pets homes last year. And since 1998 they have put down more than 20,000 animals.
Reserch Director for 'The Center for Consumer Frodom' David Amrtosko is quoted as saying ''PETA hasn't slowed down its hypocritical killing machine but keeps browbeating the rest of society with a phony 'Animal Rights' message.''
The CCF have attempted to have PETA's main office in Virginia reclassified as a slaughterhouse.

Well if its anything like the R.S.P.C.A? I'm not surprised! if you want to truly help an Animal then I'm afraid you have to do it yourself from my experience and others i have spoke to,I Can not make any comment about PETA as i have had no dealings with them.But my own personal experience with the R.S.P.C.A was disappointing to say the least,i would NOT give them a PENNY from now on I'm afraid to say

DrogoBroadband wrote:No Andy, I am a member of the Dave McBride's Crusade Against Animal Cruelty and Neglect, but I do support their views on many instances of animal cruelty. Anyway, never believe what you read in the papers - that was written deliberately to put PETA in a bad light



Hugh, breeding animals unaturally in captivity in a foreign environment is no solution to their endangerment. It would be far better to prevent the cause of their decline in the first place...more often than not caused by mankind exploiting them for financial gain. It is as simple as this - if no one wore fur there would be no fur trade. If people didn't hanker after exotic pets, these animals could be left alone to get on with their natural lives in their native country with only their natural predators to worry about. What kind of life does a Humming Bird have, trussed up and stuck in a cigarette packet along with 10 others to get through customs. Nine of them will probably be dead when they reach their destination, and the other two caged for life, a very short life.

Dave,
I don't dis-agree, smuggling animals etc in the way you describe is abhorrent, but breeding them to satisfy a market is wrong?

by breeding them (captive bred) it prevents many more being taken from the wild and subsequently entering the black pet trade.

by breeding rare and endangered species it at least goes some way to preventing their extinction because of human greed (clearing land for farming etc etc). which is better, animals well looked after in captivity, or non existent?

if we did not breed animals to satisfy a market, be it fur or food / products, many creatures would be extinct, we would not have bred cows, pigs and sheep for wool, leather, milk, food, etc, then how many of those animals would be left in this country? we would not have killed wolves to protect our livestock, and the natural levels of these creatures, due to human expansion, would be so small that wolves would have probably finished the job!!

PITA,

i've twice had direct experience with this gang of yobs and pretty faces, their propaganda machine is equal to that of hitler (though they wear earth friendly shoes).

i was repairing equipment as a business which supplies equipment of some kind to the life sciences group, a mob of about 200 protestors (a mob being a great number of unwashed, dirty, and mainly dreadlocked or bald students and work shy troublemakers) descended upon the factory, the police came in and were outside to protect the building, these people were there (and at other sites around the country) on the say so of peta, i finished my work and was escorted out by the police, these people were crazed, truly, even when i was in my van i felt truly scared for my wellbeing.
nice friendly bunch that peta org.

2nd time was less worrying, about 25 protestors vs 15 sea anglers, them with peta banners and placards, us with filleting knives etc (seemed much fairer than my first meeting!). these guys and girls were a lot more placid, some of us even went over to talk to them, some were very obnoxious and believed every word of the peta website propaganda, and others were more open,

some could not see the similarity between the leather shoes they wore and my eating a fish (food, not sport in my book). many couldn't see how sustainable an activity it was compared to commercial fisheries, eg...we might catch 75 fish between us, we might keep 15-20 fish of a decent size (on a very lucky day) for the table, the rest go back. of those that are returned, many will continue their journey to maturity, and a few will die - probably. One commercial boat can haul several tons in one net, that's thousands of fish, many crushed to death and suffocated long before they get to the sorting room where the vast majority is returned dead, only a few species survive this treatment, and they're not the ones under huge pressure.

even after explaining the above, one woman suggested we buy our fish from a shop like everyone else, to continue the slaughtr at sea i suppose!

those that took the time to listen and discuss things were invited to come and spend a few hours with us, see how fish were handled, the lengths we go to to avoid catching what we don't want, etc. about 6 came and stayed when the demo left, i think they had a good time, several didn't mind the tea with cows milks & freshly bbq's bass and mackeral either! some genuinely nice people who went way feeling pretty cheated by peta and their propoganda.

so.. peta, i've no time for them, famous faces have little idea what they're promoting in truth.

Hugh

ps, we do a lot of bad things on this planet, breeding a few animals is the least of our worries, We can't do much to stop most of what happens, we just have to accept it and do what we can to keep our own consciences clear.

oh, and don't start on the fish feel pain tripe that peta published, a fish will react if you stick acid in it's water (a they did to prove they feel), all it did was prove they have a good sense of smell, did they know it was burning? nice experiment peta. they only have to look at what fish eat to work out the pain thing... fish eat shellfish, spikey crabs with nasty defences, sharp coral etc. fight or flight is their reaction, i doubt they even know the hook is in their lip!

Please keep this post light hearted as it was meant to be, it is getting political, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is not the place for a long drawn out debate on animal rights.

Thank you.