You know who you are paint experts
What are the "compliant" paints to do a clear over base or a direct gloss finish?
I gather 2K is gone now officially. But there is no waterbased direct gloss and now WB Clear? Or have I heard that wrong?
Is 1K clear still about? Or is that banned now?
Will this new "ultra high solids" basecoat need force drying and can we still buy old fashioned basecoat still?
I used to like a HS basecoat with a 1K clear top.
I understand I can still get cellulose as a "classic car restorer" but thats an issue with metallics and colour matching on celly is always a bit odd.
Suggestions for a DIY friendly paint - or am I just goign to have to see who's still selling the old stuff and stock up!?!?
Anyone know what the deal is with paint supply at the moment
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There's a strange loop hole in the legislation and an even stranger situation as regards the EU Paint Product Directive...you'll not be surprised to learn, as usual, the Europeans have gone off at a tangent without thinking the problem through properly, it's costing the industry millions and as usual, the good old UK follows the rules, while everyone else find ways around them.
But enough ranting, the situation is that professional automotive refinishers must use compliant products, which, roughly speaking is waterbased basecoats, low VOC primers and low VOC clears (which are 2K by the way).
However, motor cycle refiishers and classic vehicle restorers can use the celly and solvent based materials.
But, the big companies, like BASF, are governed by European law, not to produce the solvent based stuff, despite more than three quarters of the world still use it.
So, the solvent based stuff is still being made (not in the EU you understand!) and you can source "the good stuff" from companies like Autopaint International in Liverpool, http://www.autopaintinternational.com/index.html
but their colour offer may not be up to much...I can't say, because I haven't used them, they may be able to do a match from an accurate colour swatch, best bet is to give them a try.
The compliant materials are the best way to achieve a spot on factory match now and the gear is fine as long as you have the equipment and the facilities to apply it.
Ideally a professional spray booth of course or a spotlessly clean and dry environment with good filtered extraction, plenty of air movement and a warm dry atmosphere...spraying at home would definitely be a Summer job!
Personally, I think the market for materials that can be applied in less than perfect conditions will be available for many many years to come and I know that some refinishers are getting around the problem by using materials that are classed as "industrial" for application to machinery and plant...a bit like the Oldsmobile Super 88 excavator and Dodge Charger R/T bulldozer, if you get my drift
So there is aways a solution, don't panic!
But enough ranting, the situation is that professional automotive refinishers must use compliant products, which, roughly speaking is waterbased basecoats, low VOC primers and low VOC clears (which are 2K by the way).
However, motor cycle refiishers and classic vehicle restorers can use the celly and solvent based materials.
But, the big companies, like BASF, are governed by European law, not to produce the solvent based stuff, despite more than three quarters of the world still use it.
So, the solvent based stuff is still being made (not in the EU you understand!) and you can source "the good stuff" from companies like Autopaint International in Liverpool, http://www.autopaintinternational.com/index.html
but their colour offer may not be up to much...I can't say, because I haven't used them, they may be able to do a match from an accurate colour swatch, best bet is to give them a try.
The compliant materials are the best way to achieve a spot on factory match now and the gear is fine as long as you have the equipment and the facilities to apply it.
Ideally a professional spray booth of course or a spotlessly clean and dry environment with good filtered extraction, plenty of air movement and a warm dry atmosphere...spraying at home would definitely be a Summer job!
Personally, I think the market for materials that can be applied in less than perfect conditions will be available for many many years to come and I know that some refinishers are getting around the problem by using materials that are classed as "industrial" for application to machinery and plant...a bit like the Oldsmobile Super 88 excavator and Dodge Charger R/T bulldozer, if you get my drift
So there is aways a solution, don't panic!
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Anonymous
Cheers for the prompt reply!
I am hearing stories of people going to their local paint factors and being told that they can't supply X or Y now though and that they only sell water based, UHS or whatever.
I have used Autoppaint INternation's products in the past. Twice I had a perfect colour mathcn and was very happy, third time I had a grey which was far too green. then their local franchise closed down. I suspect some of that was to do with who was doing the mixing. And the masko they sold was rubbish.
Know whether Lechler are still making the "good stuff" as thats the brand of choice at my local. I like supporting a local outlet and they are very helpful and friendly down there.
I know that HOK are still selling through a few sign makeing outlets and the like, Just have to do everything candy apple red LOL.
I think the guys at Metalflake UK said they were dumping all their non-compliant paint at the end of this year! I might make an offer for that as a job lot. Proper old scool acrylic lacquer paint. I can't believe they'd really do that though.
I am hearing stories of people going to their local paint factors and being told that they can't supply X or Y now though and that they only sell water based, UHS or whatever.
I have used Autoppaint INternation's products in the past. Twice I had a perfect colour mathcn and was very happy, third time I had a grey which was far too green. then their local franchise closed down. I suspect some of that was to do with who was doing the mixing. And the masko they sold was rubbish.
Know whether Lechler are still making the "good stuff" as thats the brand of choice at my local. I like supporting a local outlet and they are very helpful and friendly down there.
I know that HOK are still selling through a few sign makeing outlets and the like, Just have to do everything candy apple red LOL.
I think the guys at Metalflake UK said they were dumping all their non-compliant paint at the end of this year! I might make an offer for that as a job lot. Proper old scool acrylic lacquer paint. I can't believe they'd really do that though.
I think you'll find Lechlar will only be supplying compliant materials now, but it will be worth contacting your local distributor and asking, after all, what are the bike blokes using?
The compliant thing is not too much hassle though, as long as you have air fed and a decent place to spray because the most of the primers and clears are only low VOC versions of the existing 2K products, so they are no real problem to apply.
There are waterborne primers and a clear or two on the market, but you don't want to make life difficult for yourself, so the only waterborne bit you need in the system is the basecoat and that's wher you need to get the application and the atmosphere dead right.
I'm going to give it a shot at applying the stuff in the shed and see what happens, it can't be that difficult...
The compliant thing is not too much hassle though, as long as you have air fed and a decent place to spray because the most of the primers and clears are only low VOC versions of the existing 2K products, so they are no real problem to apply.
There are waterborne primers and a clear or two on the market, but you don't want to make life difficult for yourself, so the only waterborne bit you need in the system is the basecoat and that's wher you need to get the application and the atmosphere dead right.
I'm going to give it a shot at applying the stuff in the shed and see what happens, it can't be that difficult...
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Anonymous
I don't even like 2K to be honest.
And I didn;t realise motobikes were exempt.
I tried a 2K clear on the last paint job I did and it was not good. I had some issues due to the temperature rising quite a bit and my timber garage getting a bit hot inside for it I think (it didnlt flow out right), but its no where near as good to flat and polish as 1K or celly and you just don;t seem to get anything like the depth of lustre as you do with celly / 1K. I did a side by side test on a panel to juct check it wasn't my imagination...
Also despite me suiting up I still ended up feeling ill that evening and part of the following day after spraying the 2K clear.
I'm sticking with the old fashioned products. I like them, I know how to use them and they don't make me vomit
And I didn;t realise motobikes were exempt.
I tried a 2K clear on the last paint job I did and it was not good. I had some issues due to the temperature rising quite a bit and my timber garage getting a bit hot inside for it I think (it didnlt flow out right), but its no where near as good to flat and polish as 1K or celly and you just don;t seem to get anything like the depth of lustre as you do with celly / 1K. I did a side by side test on a panel to juct check it wasn't my imagination...
Also despite me suiting up I still ended up feeling ill that evening and part of the following day after spraying the 2K clear.
I'm sticking with the old fashioned products. I like them, I know how to use them and they don't make me vomit
Ivor- I've not used the water based stuff personally but our painter whose been spraying longer than me (25+ years) after being initally very reluctant to change and holding off as long as we legally could reckons that it's actually easier to use. Panel to panel colour match on modern cars is loads better.
Only thing you need to be careful of is you really need to use a good 2K primer and not rub through any bits prior to applying the base as the water will cause flash rust on any bare metal.
Availability and matching of solid non metallic colours doesn't seem to be a problem yet. I don't know about 1 coat metallics as we've not used them for years.
Only thing you need to be careful of is you really need to use a good 2K primer and not rub through any bits prior to applying the base as the water will cause flash rust on any bare metal.
Availability and matching of solid non metallic colours doesn't seem to be a problem yet. I don't know about 1 coat metallics as we've not used them for years.
Your sprayer is dead right...in the right onditions, that is to say a decent booth, with good air movement and the right humidity, waterbased base coats are a piece of cake to use.
I must admit the only single coat metallic that is still used regularly is in the commercial vehicle bodyshops, as far as I'm aware.
And once more, your sprayer is right, any rub throughs of the primer need to be spot primed with an etch other wise flash rust is the result.
I can see compliant coatings actually becoming easier to use as time goes by and in the meantime, supplies of traditional materials are still available, if you look hard enough.
I must admit the only single coat metallic that is still used regularly is in the commercial vehicle bodyshops, as far as I'm aware.
And once more, your sprayer is right, any rub throughs of the primer need to be spot primed with an etch other wise flash rust is the result.
I can see compliant coatings actually becoming easier to use as time goes by and in the meantime, supplies of traditional materials are still available, if you look hard enough.
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Anonymous