Replacing the K Member for a BB

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 10:11 am

Mmm. Well Jim is in the ideal position here because he has both a V8 Challnger and a Hemi Cuda.

So if you could show be the difference in the frame i would be most grateful.

I do know the 383/440 has a different part number to the Hemi. But the only difference i have ever been able to find was the skid plate on the bottom. However many 440 cars got this too.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Nov 12, 07 10:13 am

Let me qualify that. Nowadays you can get adapter mounts so that an original style Hemi can bolt in to a V8 K member (or even, I think the /6 one).

From the factory, the "K" frame is different.
This is because the motor mounts on a hemi bolt in using 3 bolts each side directly into the lower block wall (they actually go right through so silicon must be used on the threads). The Hemi block was re-designed this way so that the "header style" cast Iron exhaust manifolds had the best flow possible, and thus the R/B style mount would have fouled. This is also why a Hemi has a different dipstick arrangement, complete with insulation.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 12, 07 10:26 am

Blimey Dave, - what makes you think Challengers are any different to Cuda's?

Hemi K members are different whatever body they are in.

You are right to say all B & E non Hemi V8 K's are the same. A body small block K is different to A body big block K.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 10:41 am

Pete wrote:Let me qualify that. Nowadays you can get adapter mounts so that an original style Hemi can bolt in to a V8 K member (or even, I think the /6 one).

From the factory, the "K" frame is different.
This is because the motor mounts on a hemi bolt in using 3 bolts each side directly into the lower block wall (they actually go right through so silicon must be used on the threads). The Hemi block was re-designed this way so that the "header style" cast Iron exhaust manifolds had the best flow possible, and thus the R/B style mount would have fouled. This is also why a Hemi has a different dipstick arrangement, complete with insulation.

What you are saying is the motor MOUNTS are different Pete. That does not make the K-frame diferent.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 10:51 am

Jim wrote:Blimey Dave, - what makes you think Challengers are any different to Cuda's?

Hemi K members are different whatever body they are in.

You are right to say all B & E non Hemi V8 K's are the same. A body small block K is different to A body big block K.

Jim I didn't say Cudas were different to Challengers. I said you have a version of both so you can show me the difference in a E-body Hemi K-frame and a 340 K-frame. Take some photos.

Let me state again what I said.

On Challengers (which I know is what Red was talking about) there was only one K-frame used for ALL V8s. THIS IS NOT THE CASE ON OTHER MODELS EXCEPT THE CUDA.

Only the /6 was different.

If you can show me any difference in the frame (not the mounts) then PLEASE do that and I will be grateful because i have failed many times to find ANY difference at all.
But don't just tell me I am wrong because you think so. Show me the evidence.

And don't confuse B-body Hemis with E-body either. Let me state again for Pete that I am talking about how they mounted a Hemi in E-bodys.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 12, 07 11:03 am

David:

Part No: 3583076 Hemi only K Frame 1970 & 1971 B & E body
All Hemi E bodies used this K Frame.

There were several different K frames used with all other V8's. If you want a list of part numbers i can provide. Sometimes the only differences were minor things like rounded edges instead of squared, sway bar fitting mods etc.

I promise you cannot mount any other mopar V8 to a Hemi K. I don't have any photos but please belive me they are different, especially on the LH side.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 12, 07 11:28 am

Dave, I have owned several Hemi cars. The difference in the K frame is immediately obvious. With your knowledge I can't believe you don't know this?

I haven't got any photos, and to photograph the the K frame and engine mounting with a big hemi in the way isn't going to be easy.

If you love me, please just believe me.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 11:50 am

I do love you Jim. xxx

And I have already stated they have different part numbers. Read what I write!

My understanding is that the different part number was for the welded skid plate. However this was also often used on 440 cars too.

I know there were different K-frames in B-bodys etc.

If you love me you will show me what the difference is and put me out of my misery.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 12, 07 11:51 am

OK here we go, - straight from Galens book:

1970 & 71 B & E body K Frames:

2962012 E body 318, 340, 383 (early)
2962090 B body 318, 383
3466477 E body 318, 383 (late)
3466477 E body 440 with skid (early)
3466479 B body 440 with skid
3583052 E body 318, 340, 340 T/A, 383 (late)
3583074 E body (70 & 71) 383, 440 with skid (late 70)
3583074 B & E body (71) 318,340, 383, 440 with skid
2962094 B body (70) 426 Hemi (early
2962014 E body (70) 426 Hemi (early
3583076 B & E body (70 & 71) 426 Hemi (late 70)

There were loads of different part numbers, with only small differences. But it is easy to see that all V8's except the Hemi will fit all K frames except those specifically for the Hemi which has its own.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 11:58 am

The Part numbers don't mean anything Jim. You can see that by the way they are listed. Different part numbers for the same engines there. Yet they all look identical and I have not been able to tell them apart. Part numbers change even with no changes to the part. Sometimes it is just an extra weld.

If there is something different to the Hemi K-frame that is "obvious" then what is it?

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Nov 12, 07 12:08 pm

Dave, the engine mount bolts to the K frame in a totally different manner.
Wedge motors have a bolt that goes in from front or back (depending on the side - Drivers or passenger). The Drivers side Hemi mount bolts VERTICALLY with a single bolt. Been there, done that. End.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Nov 12, 07 12:09 pm

Blimey Dave, I haven't got time to rumage around looking for photographic proof for you.

The difference is obvious when you look at the engine mounting area on the frame. There is no way any other V8 will fit to it. I am really surprised you don't know this.

Perhaps this is a little project for you to search the net for more info and pics. Lemme know whenyou are convinced.

For the moment please just take my word for it.

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Mon Nov 12, 07 1:04 pm

pete,s last description is the best dave the passenger side mounting point on the hemi frame is vastley different than a wedge frame, the frame appears bassicaly flat on that side and the engine mount sits straight down on it, the drivers side is different as well again bolts sideways or down but not through like the wedge, and also like pete said shcummacher make mounts to bolt to original bolt holes on hemi blocks and then straight on to a wedge k member, i have used the mounts they work great but are expensive but cheaper than a hemi frame

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 1:05 pm

Pete. You have never had a Hemi Challenger that I know of. But thanks for that pointer. I will look into that engine mount attachment method you describe.

Jim. I will do my best to find out what the difference is. Just been talking to someone that might be able to photograph an original Hemi Challenger K-frame for me.

I am suprised you don't have a digital camera Jim. I use mine all the time for members of this club. It takes about 10 mins to snap a photo and post it on here. I always have time for other club members.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 12, 07 1:06 pm

Dunc. Thanks for that. I will look into it and see if I can find a photo.