Point of no return

[Pete]

Well, probably should not be in the race section as the car is still road legal, but anyway..........

Julie & I have been working on the Sox Barracuda today.
The car, with the exception of the glass fenders, hood, and bumpers was basically a full weight road car with sound deadening, and full trim.

Best time to date was 10.54; and the car without driver was 3200lbs.
Time to loose some lard, both me and the car.

Thanks to Roydon (he of birdcage fame - that's what he calls his race car, I'm not sure if he realises it's also the name of the gay club in the film of the same name.....) he and I got the front screen out and the complete dashboard out on Thursday night. Bye bye wiring loom as well.

Julie and I have now stripped the complete interior out of the car so it is ready to go to Hausers for some surgery. I would guess that we have lost at least 200lbs out of the car - that back folding seat and the dash were huge. Got to be another 2/10ths

So, at least there is a very good condition B5 blue interior for a '69 Barracuda for sale at give-away price....however...

The next question is how radical to go?

If I tub the car (even mini-tubs??) it will not be eligeable for KOS at the MMA Euronats (Julies Dart is already ineligeable).

Do I
1) Keep it on the existing Superstock springs and standard tubs at the expense of overall performance in order to keep to the original spirit of the S&M Superstock cars.

2) Go to monleafs and Caltracs and standard tubs to give it a better degree of suspension tuneabilty, but it still looks basically like an SS/A car?

3) Go for ladder bars and coil overs, and tubs; which means it cannot run in KOS at the Nats, but will launch much better?

4) Say "Sod it" and go for a 4 link rear and Coil overs, and tubs?

I am not prepared to back halve the car due to cost, so there must be a limit. However, it is getting a beefed up Dana 60. Not sure on the ratio yet (probably 4.10:1's), and I hope 29 1/2" tall x 10 1/2" wide Slicks.

Motor is a KB aluminium 500ci Hemi. According to Desk Top Dyno it will only make about 650bhp and 500ft/lbs torque, but at least its light and weight off the nose. Also getting a Transbrake but no low gear set.

I would be interested in peoples views and opinions.
The car will probably end up on a trailer, but for the moment I have to work on the basis that I will have to drive to the track.....

Cheers.

Pete

[Pete]

Old Pic:

[mopar_mark]

1)If I tub the car (even mini-tubs??) it will not be eligeable for KOS at the MMA Euronats (Julies Dart is already ineligeable).

Sounds to me as though you want to go a lot faster, stayin within the KOS rules is possible. But will defintly be more difficult, more track time consuming.

1) Keep it on the existing Superstock springs and standard tubs at the expense of overall performance in order to keep to the original spirit of the S&M Superstock cars.

Again, it seems to me your need for speed, is a lot stronger desire than the Nostalgic spirit

2) Go to monleafs and Caltracs and standard tubs to give it a better degree of suspension tuneabilty, but it still looks basically like an SS/A car?

Would this still be eligable for KOS, I guess yes ? KOS events are limited, you will be limited if you decide to race in another class

3) Go for ladder bars and coil overs, and tubs; which means it cannot run in KOS at the Nats, but will launch much better?

If you going to all that trouble, I would go for a 4 bar, dont get me wrong ladder bar sets can work well. When considering labour & money not a lot between the too, with bigger gains to be had from a 4 bar

4) Say "Sod it" and go for a 4 link rear and Coil overs, and tubs?

This would be my choice

I am not prepared to back halve the car due to cost, so there must be a limit.

Nulifies questions 3 & 4

Motor is a KB aluminium 500ci Hemi. According to Desk Top Dyno it will only make about 650bhp and 500ft/lbs torque, but at least its light and weight off the nose. Also getting a Transbrake but no low gear set.

650hp & 500ft/lbs of torque is a bit more than only. With a KB bottom end, always opportunity to step up the power if you want. Not sure what heads, Cam you are running

I would be interested in peoples views and opinions.
The car will probably end up on a trailer, but for the moment I have to work on the basis that I will have to drive to the track.....

Ignoring my own situation. A race only car will do better than a part street/race car. My reason is that I work away & never have time to race. If i was in UK all the time, I would have a race only car.

Cheers, Mark...

[Pete]

Cheers Mark, don't fully understand one of your comments, Julies car is not back halved but has a ladder bar set up...........

[mopar_mark]

Cheers Mark, don't fully understand one of your comments, Julies car is not back halved but has a ladder bar set up...........

Thought you were on about installing either ladder bar or 4 bar, reference your question 3Sorry, not sure on what car is what

Sorry was only answering the questions, not taking into account what car had what. I assumed questions were relating to a car with regular suspension or where you talking about both of your cars....... now I'm confused

[Dave-R]

You are running 10.5s already on the KOS legal rear springs. The loss in weight will probable get you low 10s or even into the 9s. Remember half the weight of the car is worth 4x the power. So any weight reduction makes big gains.

How fast were you thinking of going?

With less weight the leaf springs will actually work better.

The rules only call for "factory type suspension". That to me is very open to interpretation.

I would give it another go with less weight first and see how it goes before changing the suspension.

[Pete]

Cheers Guys.

In terms of back halving, I meant I did not want to go to the extent of replacing the rear chassis rails for a very narrowed set up in the Barracuda.

Julies car (Dart) has original frame rails at the back but Ladder bars and a coil over set up and tubs. This works well at the track and launches much harder than my car (SS Springs) even though her car has much less power at the moment.

Her car 60 foot times are 1.5 secs, mine on the 10.54 run was nearly 1.8 secs. Her car ran out of steam at the top end with only 117mph, whereas mine pulled 130mph.


Pete

[Pete]

Dave, I was aiming for a 9.80, which would put me at about 135 - 140mph.

[Ivor]

Well Pete, you know I'm a nostalgia fan I would go to monleafs and Caltracs and standard tubs to give it a better degree of suspension tuneabilty, Duncan pulls nines on cart springs and the S&M would still look like an SS/A car.

[Pete]

I should have mentioned that to keep stock wheel tubs and get the big slick in the rear axle must be moved back one inch.

This creates a lot of hassle - tank, shocks, etc and the Caltracs will not bolt straight in due to previous frame mods - plasma time.... Also this means the axle is moving in the wrong direction from a weignt transfer point of view........

[andyrob]

i'm with ivors view on this one pete, dont start chopping her up, stay within kos rules

[andyrob]

pete my 60ft times with my very lardy RR are at best 1.68 & at worst 1.75 on 10 inch slicks, street gearing & probably less power so your should be less than that
It does hook up quite well though

[Pete]

That was mainly down to a misfire and too tight a convertor.........

[Anonymous]

Nice to see interesting threads , gotta go by your first instincts Pete , don't wanna be kickin yerself afterwoods.

BTW , got a great 8 3/4 for yer.