BP ultimate 102 fuel ????

Jon Connolly · Post by **Jon Connolly** » Thu Mar 06, 08 10:20 pm

Has anyone used this on the track ? and does it perform ok ?

I have an A body 340 c.i. with a compression ratio of approx 11 : 1. I know some of you use avgas, or a mixture of avgas and standard unleaded.
I want run NOS at all and didn`t want to run too high an octane fuel and shag the engine.

All comments appreciated.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Mar 06, 08 10:37 pm

I fill up with super unleaded on the way to the track and mix it with C12; but the rest of the time I just use regular unleaded - and my compression was higher than yours. I do knock the timing back a few degrees on the street, though.

Jon Connolly · Post by **Jon Connolly** » Thu Mar 06, 08 10:49 pm

Thanks Pete.
The car won`t be used on the road .... and i`m looking for low maintenance set up.
What RON is C12 ? and what sort of ratio do you mix it ?

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Mar 06, 08 10:52 pm

I think it is 104 (may be 108), and I fill up the gap in the tank! No science here!

I think the point is that it has lead, not just an "octane booster".

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Mar 07, 08 12:15 am

If the motor does'nt ping (detonate) between 34/36* total on pump gas (95/97 ron) , then using a higher octane fuel is a waste of time & money.

Are you saying you're set up for nitrous?

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Fri Mar 07, 08 12:57 am

Can you quantify AvGas??

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Mar 07, 08 8:40 am

Ermmm, I've used Avgas (or an Avgas and a super unleaded mix) as a trial. Turned the plugs red

Didn't go faster.

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Fri Mar 07, 08 3:24 pm

higher octane fuel is less explosive

NOS related engine failure is usually related to too much oxygen and not enough fuel i.e massive lean condition brought about by forcing the oxygen content of the charge to be much higher by replacing the 20% oxygen content air with 33% oxygen content N2O Gas (which falls to bits into 02 and N2 when heated)

octane rating of the fuel has little to do with it as

1) Nitrous Oxide gas is stored under pressure as a liquid. its expansion into the inlet through a nozzle involves exactly the same Physics as the methods used to work your freezer or air conditioner rapid expansion of a compressed gas removes heat from its surroundings, it greately reduces inlet charge temperature (which lowers likely hood of pinging) and hence increases density which if enough fuel is provided is not an issue

however N20 when it turns into N2 and 02 releases a lot of heat and rapidly
but that reaction only happens at the point of combustion. at a temp over 1300 degrees when not being massively compressed again by a piston. its quite a bit lower if you give it a helping hand as you do in an engine

however the nitrous oxide gas does riase the pressure in the cylinder as 02 and N2 take up more space than N20......but you want that anyway and it happens at or about igntion which is all about rapid expansion of gas.

if running NOS you want to run slightly rich as a saftey measure to avoid a holed or cracked piston or a completely mangled engine, there are no degrees of wrong set-up really.
the gains from the N2O greatly out weigh the slight wastage of fuel running a little rich involves, provided you don't go too far and foul up your plugs....but then again you would change the heat rateing of the plugs for a nitrous assisted run anyway

if you want to increase the octane rating of the fuel its easier and cheeper to add 1 lite of ethanol and 1 litre of tolulene and a cup of fully synthetic 2 stroke to a tank of 95 or 99RON petrol.

however making a bulk purchase from an industrial supplier of the first two tends to get you recorded on the "is prabably making bombs in his lock up" register

nitrous Oxide is used to make aerosol whipped cream whipped. It dissolves completely in oil very easily when under pressure and causes massive foaming of the oil when released.
and all packets of crisps are filled with it, just keep a look at for additive E942

obvioulsy if you eat enough crisps and cream then you will greatly reduce the positive effect of using the nitrous you collected from the bags and cans because you will have become a big fat............

Dave

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Fri Mar 07, 08 3:30 pm

oh yeah

N20 is a massive massive problem greenhouse gas
just you don't hear about it because the media doesn't understand

its 3-4 times worse than c02

it is released from the use of fertliser

we can't stop using fertiliser because there isn't enough land to support the growth of food crops for the current world population without its use

i.e

laughing gas.....no laughing matter

It will kill us all

Dave

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Fri Mar 07, 08 3:52 pm

Out of interest, here are my findings as regards fuel for my 318 with a 150 shot of NOS. Early last season I was gunning for the 11 and got hold of some VP C16 (116ron) just to give the 318 a fighting chance with a bit of timing. Got close, until last run Sunday I had to top up with normal Optimax. I was also out of nos so borrowed a bottle. Off the line hard as usual, but the nos ran out mid strip. The engine was smoking more than usual.......All top rings cracked and a cracked piston. I still believe if the nos had held out I'd have been on a trailer home......C16 from then on, sod the expense!! (£4 a litre). 11.72, sweet!

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Fri Mar 07, 08 4:20 pm

Dave999 wrote:higher octane fuel is less explosive

Only because it burns slower. It does however release more energy.

But to take advantage of it you need to also increase the ignition timing. Otherwise your engine will be, in effect, retarded. Which cancels out the increase in energy. So you don't find any power increase in the engine.

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Fri Mar 07, 08 5:50 pm

Kev wrote:Out of interest, here are my findings as regards fuel for my 318 with a 150 shot of NOS. Early last season I was gunning for the 11 and got hold of some VP C16 (116ron) just to give the 318 a fighting chance with a bit of timing. Got close, until last run Sunday I had to top up with normal Optimax. I was also out of nos so borrowed a bottle. Off the line hard as usual, but the nos ran out mid strip. The engine was smoking more than usual.......All top rings cracked and a cracked piston. I still believe if the nos had held out I'd have been on a trailer home......C16 from then on, sod the expense!! (£4 a litre). 11.72, sweet!

but was it the change in fuel that caused it or was it just the last run it could manage regardless after the relentelss campaign.

did you wind the timing back again? you were set up for that fuel that shot of Nitrous that days air temp

obviously experience wins out here you changed fuel and it possibly caused a failure but depending on what the original question ment you just answerd it
hi octane ok low octane not

Carl Burger Dodge

I want run NOS at all and didn`t want to run too high an octane fuel and shag the engine.

I was answering this bit

which is either
"I don't want to run NOS at all"
or
"I want to run NOS"

and

"high octane fuel could shag the engine"

what i should have done is concentrate on the latter

and i could have then said

No

low octane fuel could shag your engine

high octane just wears out your wallet

Dave

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Fri Mar 07, 08 5:53 pm

low octane fuel could shag your engine

high octane just wears out your wallet

In a nutshell, Dave

What was the original Q? To NOS or Not?

I want run NOS at all

Ideas on a postcard, please

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Mar 07, 08 7:32 pm

Getting the fuel/nitrous ratio somewhere near the mark is only the start , running nitrous is an art in it's own right , anyone thinking of using it should do there homework , if it's installed correctly there should be no reason for not being able to run pass after pass.

Pistons , cam , heads, exhaust , crank, rods.....................this is just the start.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri Mar 07, 08 7:44 pm

Does that mean having the spray bar in the right way up?

On the red wine early tonight, its been a long week