Meet you @ Toddy Del.
BTW , sorry to hear you were late for the meal the other night , you obviously did'nt follow my directions for getting home.
Billing June 15th
Moderator: Moderators
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Anonymous
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Dart Vader
- Posts: 3532
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 07 5:27 pm
- Location: Swindon MMA180
I'll be there
I'll be there probably sat/sun as the missus doesn't fancy 2 nights in a tent
Won't meet at Toddington though as not on my route
Dart is smoking a bit (actually a lot) but should make it
Justin
Won't meet at Toddington though as not on my route
Dart is smoking a bit (actually a lot) but should make it
Justin
Justin "Supreme Leader" Greener
1970 Dodge Dart
1995 Mustang GT
1980 MGBGT
1970 Dodge Dart
1995 Mustang GT
1980 MGBGT
Sandy, you may be lining yourself for the title of the profit of doom, but I think you are right.
The only way national events can work is if the visitors as well as the participants can justify the time and the considerable amount of money getting any large engined vehicle to the event.
This means that real value has to be looked at, bang for the buck and all that.
That means proper, professional organisation, lots of things to do for everyone and that includes the show and shine brigade, the racers, the numbers matching experts and those that actually run these cars, often on a tight budget.
They all need to go away from the event feeling they've achieved something, even if they don't have a shiny trophy or a ten second timing slip...just my tuppence worth.
The only way national events can work is if the visitors as well as the participants can justify the time and the considerable amount of money getting any large engined vehicle to the event.
This means that real value has to be looked at, bang for the buck and all that.
That means proper, professional organisation, lots of things to do for everyone and that includes the show and shine brigade, the racers, the numbers matching experts and those that actually run these cars, often on a tight budget.
They all need to go away from the event feeling they've achieved something, even if they don't have a shiny trophy or a ten second timing slip...just my tuppence worth.
We will be taking the pink Charger up on Sunday, with its fresh polish up and R/T stripes (thanks Jack) 
It may be the last outing for a few weeks so hoping the weather is kind.
Wont make the convoy as we go the back way thru Bedford.
It may be the last outing for a few weeks so hoping the weather is kind.
Wont make the convoy as we go the back way thru Bedford.
Matt Hollingsworth - Vehicle Registrar
Panther Pink 73 Aussie Charger 265 Hemi 4 spd
Challenger Sam Posey Tribute car
Panther Pink 73 Aussie Charger 265 Hemi 4 spd
Challenger Sam Posey Tribute car
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Anonymous
Doomed and entombed.Ivor wrote:Sandy, you may be lining yourself for the title of the profit of doom, but I think you are right.
With regard to Tony's post, while I have little doubt as to Harry's ability to organise an effective event (he did very well running the AAC's Billing events and then his own events there), moving the show to Farnborough will dampen it down for the majority of midlanders who regard Northampton as accessible, and kill it completely for anyone north of Birmingham.
Whether he can compensate by attracting more of the sunny Sunday southerners will remain to be seen.
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Rich
For the 1st time in a long while I agree with the entire contents of one of Sandy`s postings..Sandy wrote:My opinion is that national events are going to die off, slowly maybe, but surely.
If we all did 40 to the gallon we may be in with a chance,but lets face it,,,things are getting a bit silly in the wallet dept for a weekend away.The real downside is that most of us will never get to see Sandy`s Torino
or even that blue n white thing. 
See you @ the Nats if not Billing...
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MilesnMiles
- Posts: 7309
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 05 8:40 pm
- Location: Cornwall
The cost is now starting to bite. i couldnt make Shakey the other week due to car not quite ready, but i really baulked (for the first time) at the £180 fuel bill (min estimate) before I paid a penny for racing/entry/beer etc.
As for Billing, not worth the cost if thre is no racing. Shame cos it's a nice venue and a decent gig.
As for Billing, not worth the cost if thre is no racing. Shame cos it's a nice venue and a decent gig.
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latil
- Posts: 12076
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 05 10:37 pm
- Location: Steve Pearson MMA/014. East Grinstead and Carmarthen.
I haven't filled the tank in one hit this year,last year it was £86.I've already dropped 2 shows this year and saved about £100.There's nothing round this way unless you like pub meets with the AACUK/GB/whatever splinter group is meeting.We lost Blackbushe years ago,which was fairly close.I'm not a fan of grassy fields, deck chairs and polishing cloths. I know how Sandy feels.
1965 Belvedere 2 426 Wedge.
Climate change,global warming,the biggest tax raising scam ever devised by man for mankind.
Motivating Our People,Accelerating Rapidly.
Climate change,global warming,the biggest tax raising scam ever devised by man for mankind.
Motivating Our People,Accelerating Rapidly.
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Anonymous
It is difficult not to come across as a northern whiner about stuff like this.
I am, at the moment at least, in the relatively fortunate position that my company covers the daily running costs of my Astra (though how long that will last as diesel gets stupidly expensive remains to be seen) so 'attending' shows is not really a problem for me. What is a problem is the prick of conscience I feel when I roll up to a show, like last year's Nats, in a 55-60mpg Astra and expect others to supply 10-15mpg cars for me to look at, and enjoy.
There was a post on the MOCGB forum about someone who was complaining that, to attend a large national Mustang event this year, he had had to put just over £100 worth of petrol in his Mustang. Well, I am sorry, but it was last century when I last had to put 'only' £100 in my car (and a 30mpg V6 Buick at that) to attend a national show. These days, an event like Billing or the Nats in one of my cars (though not Linda's Monaco which is amazingly economical at steady motorway speeds - although when you see the, what seems like 1inch bore, carb ... maybe not ) would run me at least £300 in petrol alone, and £60 just to get into the right country. What is annoying is that £300 is not spent on particularily enjoyable motoring, no back roads hooning on a sunny Sunday, but a long (380 mile each way), noisy, vibratory motorway bore, which is, lets face it, no real fun. These cars aren't really designed for that. (Monacos - yes, Cobras - no) It always makes me laugh when folk are amazed at U.S. survivor musclecars emerging with 'only' 10000 miles on the clock. No wonder the mileage is so low, no one in their right mind would drive them any distance in the first place. A pootle to the local cruise, the nearest Dairy Queen, maybe, but Atlantic-Pacific jaunts ? Em, no way.
Along with the distance/cost are the vagaries of the British weather.
Look at the impact that the perceived hint of bad weather had on last year's MoPar Nats. I have no idea of the real figures (the unexpectedly good weather would have brought out the accessible day trippers) but the long weekend attender numbers certainly looked way down and only looked better than usual due to the restricted camping areas giving the place a 'busy' feel. Had we been allowed to camp as usual, it would have looked very thin, plus, as can be expected from now on, foreign attendee numbers will drop quite dramatically for the reasons of cost and the fact that they are now confident enough to organise their own national events, based on the successful blue print provided by the U.K. event. What will 'save' the U.K. MoPar Nats is it is a big event where cars get to race and show, and the attendance of non-MoPar muscle cars to boost numbers. One of the excellent things the guys have always done right from the start is encourage it to be, despite its name, a non-MoPar only event. Like it or not, the MoPar Nats survives because of the non MoPars.
Returning to the weather, long distance travellers are more susceptible to the weather vagaries, because, they tend to commit to the weekend. Should the weather turn nasty, they can't just bail out and be home and warm in a couple of hours, car safely tucked up and chamois'd.
So, what is going to happen is that National events are going to mean the south of England, and the attenders are going to be southern Englanders. Clubs will fracture. Single make clubs will hold together better than multi make clubs due to the internet and a common purpose. Multi make clubs will fracture because, let's face it, they are all whingers who reckon they can do better than the club officials and form yet another breakaway from the breakaway from the first breakaway club. These breakaway clubs will become local clubs with, at best 50 nominal members, and actually only 10 or so meeting attenders, and the vanners won't talk to the F-Bodyers, and the barge owners will mutter darkly that it cost them £30 to bring their Cad-Linc-Chry-o-supertanker to the meeting. And there were only ten people there, and nobody fawned over their car so they won't bring it next time.
This is exactly what happened up here. Folk find out that there is an 'American' car club meet so they come along and find, em, three cars in the car park, but ten enthusiasts in the Brewers Fayre. They expected to find a car park full of old American cars, just like they see every month in Classic American (let's ignore for a moment that at least 30% of CA's featured cars are not U.K. based) and are disappointed when there aren't. So, they don't come back. The other huge snag is that the folk already there now know one another and have fallen into that techno-babble-yankeecar-small block-torqueflite speak that is almost impenetrable to outsiders, and, with the best will in the world, it is difficult for them to break into, and difficult for the babblers to allow them in.
We tried up here, and we failed. We are now a close knit group of folk who 'know' one another, and, importantly, have known one another for years and years and years (25 in some cases) and we have to just get on with it. I think this model will spread south, if it hasn't reached some places already.
As I mentioned before, single make clubs will survive better due to a common purpose. However, the strongest clubs, the Corvette club, the MMA, the MOCGB have their own peculiar problems. All suffer from model splits. The banter may be light hearted, but there is definite model 'snobbery'. It may be 'invisible' to you guys, but to an outsider it is glaringly obvious. The other snag is that, due to their popularity, the cars covered by these clubs are gob smackingly expensive, and over priced. This makes them self selecting. The MMA suffers worse in this because, frankly, MoPar Muscle died in 1974 so the pool is restricted. Ford still builds Mustangs, and GM Corvettes, so the MOCGB can still attract younger members who can afford cheap nineties Mustangs, and the Corvette guys can high end, by offering rich folk a hugely impressive modern vehicle that they can buy and hence join a club just the same as they could with Porsches or Aston Martins.
The 'classics' will always be pricey though. This will never change. There is a 'pool' of owners who, like high end house owners, can afford to move around and buy and swap the top end cars, while the rest of us are (and I am speaking personally here) have now got we have until we die.
Ho-hum, I rambled off there.
All the best
I am, at the moment at least, in the relatively fortunate position that my company covers the daily running costs of my Astra (though how long that will last as diesel gets stupidly expensive remains to be seen) so 'attending' shows is not really a problem for me. What is a problem is the prick of conscience I feel when I roll up to a show, like last year's Nats, in a 55-60mpg Astra and expect others to supply 10-15mpg cars for me to look at, and enjoy.
There was a post on the MOCGB forum about someone who was complaining that, to attend a large national Mustang event this year, he had had to put just over £100 worth of petrol in his Mustang. Well, I am sorry, but it was last century when I last had to put 'only' £100 in my car (and a 30mpg V6 Buick at that) to attend a national show. These days, an event like Billing or the Nats in one of my cars (though not Linda's Monaco which is amazingly economical at steady motorway speeds - although when you see the, what seems like 1inch bore, carb ... maybe not
) would run me at least £300 in petrol alone, and £60 just to get into the right country. What is annoying is that £300 is not spent on particularily enjoyable motoring, no back roads hooning on a sunny Sunday, but a long (380 mile each way), noisy, vibratory motorway bore, which is, lets face it, no real fun. These cars aren't really designed for that. (Monacos - yes, Cobras - no) It always makes me laugh when folk are amazed at U.S. survivor musclecars emerging with 'only' 10000 miles on the clock. No wonder the mileage is so low, no one in their right mind would drive them any distance in the first place. A pootle to the local cruise, the nearest Dairy Queen, maybe, but Atlantic-Pacific jaunts ? Em, no way. Along with the distance/cost are the vagaries of the British weather.
Look at the impact that the perceived hint of bad weather had on last year's MoPar Nats. I have no idea of the real figures (the unexpectedly good weather would have brought out the accessible day trippers) but the long weekend attender numbers certainly looked way down and only looked better than usual due to the restricted camping areas giving the place a 'busy' feel. Had we been allowed to camp as usual, it would have looked very thin, plus, as can be expected from now on, foreign attendee numbers will drop quite dramatically for the reasons of cost and the fact that they are now confident enough to organise their own national events, based on the successful blue print provided by the U.K. event. What will 'save' the U.K. MoPar Nats is it is a big event where cars get to race and show, and the attendance of non-MoPar muscle cars to boost numbers. One of the excellent things the guys have always done right from the start is encourage it to be, despite its name, a non-MoPar only event. Like it or not, the MoPar Nats survives because of the non MoPars.
Returning to the weather, long distance travellers are more susceptible to the weather vagaries, because, they tend to commit to the weekend. Should the weather turn nasty, they can't just bail out and be home and warm in a couple of hours, car safely tucked up and chamois'd.
So, what is going to happen is that National events are going to mean the south of England, and the attenders are going to be southern Englanders. Clubs will fracture. Single make clubs will hold together better than multi make clubs due to the internet and a common purpose. Multi make clubs will fracture because, let's face it, they are all whingers who reckon they can do better than the club officials and form yet another breakaway from the breakaway from the first breakaway club. These breakaway clubs will become local clubs with, at best 50 nominal members, and actually only 10 or so meeting attenders, and the vanners won't talk to the F-Bodyers, and the barge owners will mutter darkly that it cost them £30 to bring their Cad-Linc-Chry-o-supertanker to the meeting. And there were only ten people there, and nobody fawned over their car so they won't bring it next time.
This is exactly what happened up here. Folk find out that there is an 'American' car club meet so they come along and find, em, three cars in the car park, but ten enthusiasts in the Brewers Fayre. They expected to find a car park full of old American cars, just like they see every month in Classic American (let's ignore for a moment that at least 30% of CA's featured cars are not U.K. based) and are disappointed when there aren't. So, they don't come back. The other huge snag is that the folk already there now know one another and have fallen into that techno-babble-yankeecar-small block-torqueflite speak that is almost impenetrable to outsiders, and, with the best will in the world, it is difficult for them to break into, and difficult for the babblers to allow them in.
We tried up here, and we failed. We are now a close knit group of folk who 'know' one another, and, importantly, have known one another for years and years and years (25 in some cases) and we have to just get on with it. I think this model will spread south, if it hasn't reached some places already.
As I mentioned before, single make clubs will survive better due to a common purpose. However, the strongest clubs, the Corvette club, the MMA, the MOCGB have their own peculiar problems. All suffer from model splits. The banter may be light hearted, but there is definite model 'snobbery'. It may be 'invisible' to you guys, but to an outsider it is glaringly obvious. The other snag is that, due to their popularity, the cars covered by these clubs are gob smackingly expensive, and over priced. This makes them self selecting. The MMA suffers worse in this because, frankly, MoPar Muscle died in 1974 so the pool is restricted. Ford still builds Mustangs, and GM Corvettes, so the MOCGB can still attract younger members who can afford cheap nineties Mustangs, and the Corvette guys can high end, by offering rich folk a hugely impressive modern vehicle that they can buy and hence join a club just the same as they could with Porsches or Aston Martins.
The 'classics' will always be pricey though. This will never change. There is a 'pool' of owners who, like high end house owners, can afford to move around and buy and swap the top end cars, while the rest of us are (and I am speaking personally here) have now got we have until we die.
Ho-hum, I rambled off there.
All the best
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latil
- Posts: 12076
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 05 10:37 pm
- Location: Steve Pearson MMA/014. East Grinstead and Carmarthen.
You're spot on,Sandy 25 years back there was a small club near here,Mid sussex Rodders,they had about 20 members,mainly yanks.They hated anyone new turning up to one of their meets and were downright rude to all newcomers.
25 years back there was a small club near here,Mid sussex Rodders,they had about 20 members,mainly yanks.They hated anyone new turning up to one of their meets and were downright rude to all newcomers.1965 Belvedere 2 426 Wedge.
Climate change,global warming,the biggest tax raising scam ever devised by man for mankind.
Motivating Our People,Accelerating Rapidly.
Climate change,global warming,the biggest tax raising scam ever devised by man for mankind.
Motivating Our People,Accelerating Rapidly.
Excellent post Sandy and though I agree with just about everything you say, even the snobbery that can exist without club members actually noticing I have a slightly more upbeat approach to the expense of running an American car.
Lots of people I know are members of these chambers of torture called "fitness clubs" and gyms, golf clubs and the like and you wouldn't believe how expensive it can be.
I have rebuilt and run a Mopar (and others) for a lot less than some of the membership fees that friends of mine pay to follow a small white ball around the countryside.
Just a thought...
Lots of people I know are members of these chambers of torture called "fitness clubs" and gyms, golf clubs and the like and you wouldn't believe how expensive it can be.
I have rebuilt and run a Mopar (and others) for a lot less than some of the membership fees that friends of mine pay to follow a small white ball around the countryside.
Just a thought...
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MilesnMiles
- Posts: 7309
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 05 8:40 pm
- Location: Cornwall
What Sandy identifies on the yank car scene is whar happened to the British Scooter rally scene. In the 80's and early 90's there were mass rallys attracting up to 5,000 scoters at national rallies held all over the UK . It was seen a badge of honour to track a 500 mile return trip onyour hoplessly overtuned Lambretta/Vespa
This scene died out as people had kids/mortgages/grew out of it.
Currently, there is a very healthy scene but it is regional and national rallies don't really exist as they used to.
Incidentally, all the snobbisms connected to owning yanks existed in the scooter world. I wouldnt be seen dead on a mod scooter etc..wore black leathers bah blah.
Different scene but a useful parallel to some of Sandy's points.
This scene died out as people had kids/mortgages/grew out of it.
Currently, there is a very healthy scene but it is regional and national rallies don't really exist as they used to.
Incidentally, all the snobbisms connected to owning yanks existed in the scooter world. I wouldnt be seen dead on a mod scooter etc..wore black leathers bah blah.
Different scene but a useful parallel to some of Sandy's points.