Mopar_Mark - 71 Cuda

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Tue Oct 07, 08 12:59 am

Jeff wrote:

No change on the rear wing as of yet. But finally got car tax today

which has been quite a milestone in it's self....

So will be taking car out for a few local trips, once I have few local miles under my belt & more confidence, I will then look into venturing out further.

Hope to get car on a rolling road in the next 2-3 weeks, then maybe I will be able to get a better handle on the idle issue

F/Inj is great, but a lot more to learn than I expected...

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Tue Oct 07, 08 11:28 am

get ready for all the attention mark, and Bananarama! comments when your out in it fella

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Thu Oct 09, 08 12:18 am

how did the drive go mark

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Thu Oct 09, 08 1:07 am

Cannonball wrote:how did the drive go mark

Not too well, but feel I actually made break through tonight

I have been trying some different F/Inj Programs, but to no avail. I then tried another couple of programs with big changes in terms of A/F, timing, but again no difference. Again, once temp gets to around 140f, motor goes crazy. Doesn't seem to matter how much timing I put in or take out, A/F adjustments, engine does not respond once its above 140f.

I found out later, when going through the A/F program that the motor goes into closed loop @ 1450f. So that makes sense to me, why the motor starts going crazy at this temp

My thoughts are now, is that the Inj Hat butterflies are not sealed off enough when closed & allowing too much air past the butterflies. This is masked during the warm up period, once the motor has reached 1450f; it then goes in into the closed loop operation. The motor is drawing too much air, causing motor to go lean & RPM rise. Computer then adjusts fuel/timing to compensate & RPM level drops, but is then constantly trying to battle with too much airflow.

I have stripped butterfly (4 off) assembly down tonight. My plan is to Manf 2 bronze bushes for the centre 2 butterflies to be affixed 2. Butter flies will be drilled & tapped to the bronze bush. The butterfly shaft will still be able to turn within the new bush & allow opening/closing of the 2 outside butterflies. I will then seal off the 2 centre butterflies, to make them permanently closed.

Gap around the butterflies at present is approx 0.004" max. I will try & improve this, to as close to zero as I can get on the 2 outside butterflies. My thoughts are that I will half the air flow, as I am constantly trying to overcome too much airflow, the pulses from the 14-71 blower, etc.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, grasping at straws in desperation to overcome this issue... but gotta keep trying

This fuel Inj & Inj Hat malrky will either make or brake me, but I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet ! Frustrated maybe, but more determined

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Thu Oct 09, 08 11:37 am

mopar_mark wrote:
Cannonball wrote:how did the drive go mark
Not too well, but feel I actually made break through tonight

I have been trying some different F/Inj Programs, but to no avail. I then tried another couple of programs with big changes in terms of A/F, timing, but again no difference. Again, once temp gets to around 140f, motor goes crazy. Doesn't seem to matter how much timing I put in or take out, A/F adjustments, engine does not respond once its above 140f.

I found out later, when going through the A/F program that the motor goes into closed loop @ 1450f. So that makes sense to me, why the motor starts going crazy at this temp

My thoughts are now, is that the Inj Hat butterflies are not sealed off enough when closed & allowing too much air past the butterflies. This is masked during the warm up period, once the motor has reached 1450f; it then goes in into the closed loop operation. The motor is drawing too much air, causing motor to go lean & RPM rise. Computer then adjusts fuel/timing to compensate & RPM level drops, but is then constantly trying to battle with too much airflow.

I have stripped butterfly (4 off) assembly down tonight. My plan is to Manf 2 bronze bushes for the centre 2 butterflies to be affixed 2. Butter flies will be drilled & tapped to the bronze bush. The butterfly shaft will still be able to turn within the new bush & allow opening/closing of the 2 outside butterflies. I will then seal off the 2 centre butterflies, to make them permanently closed.

Gap around the butterflies at present is approx 0.004" max. I will try & improve this, to as close to zero as I can get on the 2 outside butterflies. My thoughts are that I will half the air flow, as I am constantly trying to overcome too much airflow, the pulses from the 14-71 blower, etc.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, grasping at straws in desperation to overcome this issue... but gotta keep trying

This fuel Inj & Inj Hat malrky will either make or brake me, but I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet ! Frustrated maybe, but more determined

good man keep at it matey

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Oct 09, 08 11:41 am

mopar_mark wrote:
Cannonball wrote:how did the drive go mark
Not too well, but feel I actually made break through tonight

I have been trying some different F/Inj Programs, but to no avail. I then tried another couple of programs with big changes in terms of A/F, timing, but again no difference. Again, once temp gets to around 140f, motor goes crazy. Doesn't seem to matter how much timing I put in or take out, A/F adjustments, engine does not respond once its above 140f.

I found out later, when going through the A/F program that the motor goes into closed loop @ 1450f. So that makes sense to me, why the motor starts going crazy at this temp

My thoughts are now, is that the Inj Hat butterflies are not sealed off enough when closed & allowing too much air past the butterflies. This is masked during the warm up period, once the motor has reached 1450f; it then goes in into the closed loop operation. The motor is drawing too much air, causing motor to go lean & RPM rise. Computer then adjusts fuel/timing to compensate & RPM level drops, but is then constantly trying to battle with too much airflow.

I have stripped butterfly (4 off) assembly down tonight. My plan is to Manf 2 bronze bushes for the centre 2 butterflies to be affixed 2. Butter flies will be drilled & tapped to the bronze bush. The butterfly shaft will still be able to turn within the new bush & allow opening/closing of the 2 outside butterflies. I will then seal off the 2 centre butterflies, to make them permanently closed.

Gap around the butterflies at present is approx 0.004" max. I will try & improve this, to as close to zero as I can get on the 2 outside butterflies. My thoughts are that I will half the air flow, as I am constantly trying to overcome too much airflow, the pulses from the 14-71 blower, etc.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, grasping at straws in desperation to overcome this issue... but gotta keep trying

This fuel Inj & Inj Hat malrky will either make or brake me, but I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet ! Frustrated maybe, but more determined

Nah, its probably your float level out of whack

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Thu Oct 09, 08 12:39 pm

Will it get enough airflow at WOT with two butterflies sealed?

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Thu Oct 09, 08 7:56 pm

Well, I had time today to make some parts to allow me to permantly seal the 2 centre butterflies & run only on the 2 outer butterflies.

I also checked every where for possible leaks, was spraying break cleaner around inlet, hat to see if it would draw in the cleaner & highlight any possible leaks. I am 99.9% certain I do not have any leaks.

The motor is fine, before it gets into the 'Closed Loop' idle is stable, albeit high and stays around 1,400rpm.

However, as with yesterday, once the 'Closed Loop' kicks in, idle is uncontralable as it was yesterday with rpms anywhere from 800 - 2,800 rpm.

The thing I noticed today, was that when viewing the Lambda, when in 'Closed Loop' mode, that there is no correction on the O2 or AFT correction, addditionally Actual AFR is all over the place. I can't seem to find much information within the Bigstuff3 manual, but I assume when Lambda is OK, reading should be in Green, when not OK reading is in Red. Well, I never seem to get into the Green mode.

Can some one tell me , if the Lamda is no good/needs replacing, what are the typical symptoms or put another way do my symptons seem as if the Lamda is faulty.

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Thu Oct 09, 08 8:00 pm

Dave wrote:Will it get enough airflow at WOT with two butterflies sealed?

Dave,
Yes.
I have more than enough or more to the point too much airflow. The butterflies only have 0.004" gap all round & motor can easily breath. The blower is also sucking in air at an alarming rate. I can get full throttle at around 25% opening of butterflies.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 09, 08 10:34 pm

umm love reading your thread mark it totally baffles me lol,

very interesting all the same though

good to see such a high tech car come out of such a small garage too.

keep up the gud work mate

latil · Post by **latil** » Thu Oct 09, 08 10:50 pm

This site gives some good info.
http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/ ... dex.asp#q6

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Fri Oct 10, 08 6:15 pm

Thanks for the link

Interesting site, well if you want to learn about Lambda'a

Ian Z · Post by **Ian Z** » Fri Oct 10, 08 6:57 pm

guessing the sensor is relatively cheap, so eliminate that first?

latil · Post by **latil** » Fri Oct 10, 08 7:10 pm

Generic sensors run from around £15 up,depends whether it's 1 wire or the heater type 3 and 4 wire ones. 18mm screw in or flange mount. Just done a load or research on them this week as one on my daily went down.Nothing in the generic/pattern type that appealed so main dealer and £176 later I've got no light on my dash.