Its getting a bit warm in here!

Moderator: Moderators

Anonymous

Its getting a bit warm in here!

Post by Anonymous »

Firstly, can I just say a very public thank you to Neil (Wil) who has fitted a lovely new rad and trans cooler (with gorgeous stainless braided hoses and spangly anodised bits) to the Satellite. Everything on this car seems to be a challenge, but neil made short work of getting everything stuffed into the front. Filled it up this morning and not so much as a trickle of a leak, so everything seems fine and looks stupendoulsy cool (which is the most important thing). However.......

...When I got the car, the temp gauge wasn't working and had evidently been disconnected, but it ran fine, no steam pouring our of every orifice, and the guys at Corolina Classics had given it a clean bill of health (and they are very trustworthy chaps). I did have a bash at getting it working, but there was a lot of extra wires kicking around under the dash, so I left it until I got onto sorting out the electrics. Before that, the rad goes pop and thats where the trouble starts. Buckle yourselves in lads, this is going to be a long post!

Okay, firstly I call europa and ask them what sort of fan I need for a big block. They say "big block, big fan, if it'll fit stick a 16" unit on there". A quick measure and its going to fit, but its a bit deep too clear the water pump, so I ask them if it would be an idea to replace it with an electric item. "nice idea" says they "we have a lovely little one for ?120, just stick it onto the bottom hose. Everything arrives, rad gets recored, I install the fan, put a hole in the rad (I know, I know don't start on me, I'm a klutz) but everything else goes in with a large portion of blood sweat, tears and profanity. At this stage I then notice the tiny little bit of script on the back of the box the pump came in that says 'suitable for engines up to 5L', would have been nice to mention this at point of sale, in the catalogue or even in the instructions...Bananarama!! I call europa, they call Davies Craig (propper-bo!) who says it will probably be fine but don't quote us on that (oops, just did!)

I finally find the problem with the electrics, connect everything up, including the temp gauge (which tops out at 120 degrees) and fire her up. the fan sucks like disco, and the pump is hurling water around so everything seems to be okay. However, the temperature rises, and rises, levels off for a bit at around 80, then rises and rises. In a five minute test drive I had to stop three times when the guage hit 120 and let the pump and fan run on accessory to cool things down.

So, to my problem. I was told that the original rad was 65% rust and crap, and therefore barely working. I now have an ultra flash and efficient item from our good friend Neil. The mechanical fan didn't have a shroud on it so also wasn't doing as much as it should, this is replaced by a super efficient Kenlowe. That leaves the pump. It seems to be working fine and has a flow rate of around 22 gallons per something. As far as I'm aware the original rad only had a flow rate of 20, so everything should be fine, but run the engine for five minutes and its off the scale.

Now, the fact that the guage was physically disconnected but working fine seems a bit fishy. Could it be that the gauge is reading wrong, or the sender is out of whack? Alternatively could the car have had a bigger problem from day one and the cheeky seller decided to cover it up via the miracle of wire cutters? If its the latter what could be causing a problem like this without actually killing the car? It was and still is running fine and there is no evidence of a massive overheat. Even at 120 degrees I can pull the lever on the stant cap and only a brief belch of air and water comes out of the overflow. The Jag that preceeded the Plymouth had its water pump explode and taking the cap off was like sticking your head in front of Old Faithful (the skin grafts have really taken, thanks for asking).

My next plan of attack is to get a skinny fan fron uncle Neil, mount it as a blower on the front of the rad, leave the Davies Craid pump (shamooo!) in place, add the original pump and try it again. However, I've got a horrible feeling that I'm still going to have the gauge reading 120 and be down another electric fan. The way things are at the moment, I'm going to start ordering two of everything on the assumption that I will break or have to bin one along the way. Expensive hobby when you're an idiot!

Any help, opinions, jokes about stabbing radiators, etc would be appreciated. Actually some sympathy wouldn't go amiss either.

But lets not focus on the negative......gorgeous radiator, I insist that everyone orders one immediately. It even has a nice little trough at the top for putting nuts bolts and screwdrivers on so they don't roll onto the floor :lol:

There is not an imoticon in existance that expresses how miserable I am.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

First: What other electrics did you have running? Mine are so screwed that the temp guage goes up when I turn the lights on.

Second: Is there a thermostat in there? And is it the correct temp stat? If you have no thermostat in there it is possible the water is getting pushed through the rad so fast it doesn't have a chance to cool sufficiently. Or if the thermostat is designed to open at too higher temp it could be that the stat hasn't actually opened yet!
User avatar
Cannonball
Posts: 17242
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 11:26 pm
Location: crewe, cheshire
Contact:

Post by Cannonball »

fit yourself a couple off autometer gauges cappilary type , water temp and oil pressure, you will be able to trust the readings from them and go from there
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Andy

My first step would be to take the electric water pump off and go back to the original, after seeing it it looks too small to me.

Also I take it it is pumping the right way?? and not reverse.

I may even be thick but i don't see how a water pump in the bottom hose would work well, maybe someone on here will tell me i'm talking rubbish, but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Also is the thermostat working ok??

it's a shame we didn't get the rad in earlier then we could have fired the car up and checked it over,
User avatar
TrevD
Posts: 4359
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:28 pm
Location: Essex

Post by TrevD »

i just looked in the europa catalogue and it saisa to remove the thermostat and use an electronic control on the pump to regulate flow . this sounds ok if its all set up ok. are you still running the stat?.
i looked at these pumps but think for street use thay ar not up to the job.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

i cant really comment on the above, other than to reitterate what duncan just said, thats the safest way until you can sort them,

re the pump, i run an electric water pump on pinkie, along with a dubiously thin looking ally n plastic Jag rad, everyone said to me that it would keep her cool on the street but she's been fine, never actually boiling over, sure she gets hot when sat in traffic in hot weather and going nowhere, but general use its 100%, only thing steaming is me inside cos its so hot !!
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

I'm going to try mving the fan off centre and just pressing it up against the rad as best as possible whilst I refit the original pump and try running it again (obviously static, I don't intend taking ti for a spin with a fan held on with gaffa tape!) and see what happens. Even if the electric pump isn't up to the job, its going to help the mechanical one and only improve things (I'm trying to justify my ?120, so just let that one go). If there is still a problem then I'm going to have to dig deeper. The stat is a 180 degree one with a couple of small holes drilled in it as per the Davies Craig (Bo Selecta) installation instructions for running it constanlty without the controller. Id did test the stat and its working fine.

The gauge seems to work, the temperature gradually climbs rather than flickering around or going straigfht to 120, so I don't think that it is an electrical problem. Is it possible that the meter is just reading wrong, or that the sensor is giving it the wrong info? I've always found that temperature gauges and the associated senor (properly wired) either work or they don't. Could it just be badly calibrated?

My biggest concern is that I took the car home from andover to woking, possibly with the same problem I have now. I've heard of people talking about cooking the lump, if I had done something big to it what would the symptoms be, cause on the surface its running fine.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Can I just point out that not getting the rad in on time was not down to Neil, it was down to me having to rush off take pictures of an australian serial killer's brother in Cheam for the scottish daily mail (don't ask). Oh, and the monsoon like downpour that we both almost got stuck in!

Another good reason to get Neil in to sort out your car is the chance to take benefit of his sage wisdom, and to have a bloody good natter over (infrequent) coffees. Great product and a bloody nice bloke. His Jolly old eek should be in ACW in the september edition which comes out in august.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

And another thing!

Sorry, I'm making up for not posting since Brooklands, but what temperature should the engine be running at? I'm used to the highly acurate 'h' and 'c' scale used on modern cars, I really have no idea what temperature the car should be running at. The Kenlowe instrcutions say that it should be running hotter once the fan is installed as that is more efficient. If the temperature stabilises at 120 and I had a gauge that went to 140, then I'd be about right, but I really don't see the fan coming on making any impact to the temperature, it just keeps climbing.
User avatar
Dave-R
Posts: 24752
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 11:23 pm
Location: Dave Robson lives in Geordieland
Contact:

Post by Dave-R »

Maybe I am dim or had too much wine but I don't understand this thread?

You keep throwing numbers up. What are they?

You said you had a 180 degree thermostat? Then you say you are worried the temp is over 120? It will always go up to at least 180 if the thermostat open then. Holes in the thermostat are a BAD idea. Don't do it.

I assume your temp gauge like all yank stuff measures in degress F.

You want to aim for 180 degrees. Lower than that and you can make a bit more power but wear increases. Higher than that is OK but you really don't want to go above 220 ever or that July day you get stuck in traffic it will boil (about 240 degrees with a 15lb rad cap).
User avatar
Alex
Posts: 4817
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 04 10:20 pm
Location: 53 deg 45' N, 2 deg 32' W (Manchester)

Post by Alex »

Mate, it sounds like little is wrong, if it was getting as hot as you think the pressure would be way up and the cap would be venting. Duncan is right, you really need a capillary style guage as the original ones are not to clever. If the motor ran hot at one time the chances are the sender is toast, they really do not tolerate overheating.

If and when you come up for the hood we can have a chat about it all :wink:
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Dave, its not you that is being dim, its me!

You are absolutely right about the figures being all over the shop. Being an utter newbie I just reel out figures people tell me or that are (in the case of the stat) scratched into it. I really couldn't understand how I would have a 180 degree stat and a gauge that only went to 120, especially when I have absolutely no idea what temperature the bloody thing should be running at in the first place. Thanks for the info on that, I think I just need a guage that goes something over 120! I'll go down the autometer route and also take on board your advice on the capillary gauge.

Alex, I hadn't forgotten about you, I have been up to my eyes in work last week, plus it was the Derby yesterday and have spent all day up to my elbows in engine oil! I still want the hood, but the bed in my truck won't take it as it is. I need to unbolt the roll bars and remeasure it, then work out a way to keep it in the back at 80mph!!!! Sincere apologies for not getting back to you, I'll give you a buzz tomorrow to discuss.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

you need to empty your inbox !!!

i'll post the pm here, there's nowt secret about it !!

i said...
Hi Dude,
i'm not sure of the make of the pump, its more of a motor and a belt driven pulley which fits to the w/pump snout, so effectively it still uses the original (albeit now ally) pump, but with an electric motor mounted over the alternator and a belt driving it,

not sure if these 'in line' type pumps are good for street or not.

i'll see if i ca find a pipc for you, if it's attached to this then i found one !!

regards...Hugh

ok, in hindsight, its a modified pump by the looks of it, or at least the pulley 'flange' has been replaced by a cog. i'm quite sure it says mopar on it tho.

you can see n the pic how it all goes.
sorry the pic is low res,
i dont know what thermostat i'm running, but i do have a pretty big leccy fan which i leave on all the time once the motor is warmed up,
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

If your gauge only goes to 120 it suggests it's reading in deg Celcius, or the car is designed for arctic use 8-[
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Yeah, I'm getting thrown by metric and imperial. The stat must be 180F and the meter is reading to 120c.
Post Reply