ta
idler arm fitting
Moderator: Moderators
idler arm fitting
Would like to know how the steering idler arm fits. Changed original cos I thought bushing had worn, but new ones the same. How does it sit and how does it 'bush' in place? Big bolt is loose fit in bushing, so may be too narrow. Thought the bushing was pinched and joint moved around it? k frame mounting might not be correct.
ta
ta
Involuntarius peristalsis rectum
"A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo
<a href="http://www.mybannermaker.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1862 ... cebsh4.jpg" alt='Create your own banner at mybannermaker.com!'></a><br>
"A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo
<a href="http://www.mybannermaker.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1862 ... cebsh4.jpg" alt='Create your own banner at mybannermaker.com!'></a><br>
-
Anonymous
Had the same problem Ian , just got a Bananarama! big breaker bar on it , soon pinched it up.
Some idler arms come with a grease nipple & some don't , maybe put a shim in there to take up the slack , just note which way to shim as the grease nipples on track rod ends are pretty close to the torsion bars.
Some idler arms come with a grease nipple & some don't , maybe put a shim in there to take up the slack , just note which way to shim as the grease nipples on track rod ends are pretty close to the torsion bars.
nicked from Hemi6pack.com
Fixing idler arms for good.
We valiants owners all have a couple of things in common and one of those things is our beloved Aussie A bodies have a steering system which IMHO leaves a little to be desired.
It was clearly an after thought on a car that was originally designed to be LH drive and the RH drive conversion is less than perfect..
A common fix promoted through out the repair industry for the valiant steering woes is the retro fitting of a commodore steering rack, which although fairly expensive it does produce very good results yet in my opinion the converted car doesn't feel like a valiant to drive anymore, it feels like just as another boring commodore.
Plus the idea of fitting a commonwhore steering conversion is out of the question on a collectable valiant such as a pacer Oh and it might also be not desirable also those funny stripey charger 2 doors that some peoples seem to like.
This little fixup will make the valiant steering the best it can be without affecting originality.
Look under just about any valiant and you will find that both the idler and pitman steering arms are either on the way out or they are already past there use by date. Even when newly installed they can often be made to deflect around there pivots by the normally applied steering load, and after as little as 5000kms they are often introducing up to 20mm of slack in the steering system.
For owners of valiant we know the most common fault with the steering is either a worn idler arm/ or more precisely a worn idler arm bush, the second most commonly worn item is the pitman arm or more precisely the pitman arm ball joint bush.
Admittedly the steering box sometimes is not too heathy but my blow by blow How-to-Fix of the steering box is for another day.
As this post is to help enthusiasts eliminate idler arm bush wear and pitman arm bush wear, and it is for good. For readers who don't know the idler arm bush and the pitman arm pivot bush are both made of rubber.
.
At first glance it appears the use of rubber bushes was to improve driver comfort by preventing the transmission of road noise and vibration in to the steering wheel. Yet the rubber steering rag achieves that result without any further need for rubber in the steering bushes so I am at a loss to explain why they used such a deficient system if not to introduce inbuilt redundancy. The downside is the use of rubber bushes is that with normal use they quickly degrade and hence introduce slack into the steering feel and road handling by introducing 'soft spots' in the connection between the steering wheel and tierod ends.
Most enthusiast do know that even chrysler ultimately recognised the deficiencies of the rubber idler arm bush and they offerred as a spare part ( but not original equipment as did a lot of aftermarket suppliers) a idler arm bush bearing conversion that used 2 thrust style ball bearings. This conversion works very well in eliminating idler arm free play but it does have a couple of drawbacks. First drawback is there rarity these days and therefore the relatively high cost and second and more serious problem is the ball bearings are in my opinion too light duty for the task and it is common to find they have cracked their races and need replacing.
It always struck me as odd that Chrysler used rubber bushings in the steering components.
With this in mind a few years back i embarked on a solution to the problem.
I decided to eliminate the idler arm rubber pivot bush and replace it with a solid machined bush.
I simply press out the factory bush and turn up a new bush that is the same external dimensions but is designed to swivel in the idler arm housing. Most enthusiasts have a number of idler arms that are worn on the bush end but perfect at the ball joint end so when the ball joint on your current arm wears out simply transfer the bush to the next arm.
See the attached pics, my early versions used brass but my current ones are aluminum which are proving to be just as durable. See the pics below for the detail.
Once the bush is now fitted with a grease nipple and should be greased every service.
This has worked reliably in two all of my valiants for more than 5 years without problem.
Three of my solid bush equipped cars are power steering models that are murderous on regular steering parts as their daily pilots think nothing of screwing the the steering wheel from lock to lock without moving the car a millimetre when parking.
Soon to be attached is a drawing showing the bushes critical dimensions.
Obviously I made these on a lathe, but any competent machine shop could whip one up very quickly.
Stay tuned also soon to be featured is the solid bush pitman arm conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REVHEAD360
Dave it looks the goods mate & it certainly would help BUT theres 2 things I feel that would need addressing 1) the grease nipple where shown is in a HIGH stress area that would be possible for it to failure at that point & you could imagine the fun a lawyer would have with that if it caused an accident, the grease nipple SHOULD be at the end of the bolt (grade 8 prefer) & feed through a hole in the side of it & have 2 holes in the bush so the grease will still finds it's way through...
Number 2) The original chassis bracket isn't / wasn't designed to take this force transfer through it as the bush was designed to take any yaw etc through it not the bracket so I believe again to stop eventual failure it'd have to be reinforced with a gusset to the chassis & also made to be thicker say 5mm & weld it on a 3mm plate top & bottom to help achieve this, other than that mate it's a bloody ripper of a solution to the age old problem with CAL's conversion, Well done!
Unfortunately the grease nipple needs to be in the arm or the bush as the lube is required between the bush and the arm not inbetween the bolt and the bush.
As the aluminum bush is pinched in the bracket between the top and bottom flanges the same way that the original rubber bush is retained.
I have found through experience that the grease nipple needs to be where it is currently placed to allow easy access for servicing and it doesn't get sheared off by contact with the mounting point in the arms normal range of operation.
I have found the factory mounting bracket to be sound after 5 years of use in a heavy VG V8 coupe (1680Kg) with power steering and with all the other fruit, I know that it is not definitive testing but my family member drivers thinks nothing of screwing the steering stop to stop when parking and the car has very sticky pirrelli tyres and the mount is exhibiting no signs of distress.
Fixing idler arms for good.
We valiants owners all have a couple of things in common and one of those things is our beloved Aussie A bodies have a steering system which IMHO leaves a little to be desired.
It was clearly an after thought on a car that was originally designed to be LH drive and the RH drive conversion is less than perfect..
A common fix promoted through out the repair industry for the valiant steering woes is the retro fitting of a commodore steering rack, which although fairly expensive it does produce very good results yet in my opinion the converted car doesn't feel like a valiant to drive anymore, it feels like just as another boring commodore.
Plus the idea of fitting a commonwhore steering conversion is out of the question on a collectable valiant such as a pacer Oh and it might also be not desirable also those funny stripey charger 2 doors that some peoples seem to like.
This little fixup will make the valiant steering the best it can be without affecting originality.
Look under just about any valiant and you will find that both the idler and pitman steering arms are either on the way out or they are already past there use by date. Even when newly installed they can often be made to deflect around there pivots by the normally applied steering load, and after as little as 5000kms they are often introducing up to 20mm of slack in the steering system.
For owners of valiant we know the most common fault with the steering is either a worn idler arm/ or more precisely a worn idler arm bush, the second most commonly worn item is the pitman arm or more precisely the pitman arm ball joint bush.
Admittedly the steering box sometimes is not too heathy but my blow by blow How-to-Fix of the steering box is for another day.
As this post is to help enthusiasts eliminate idler arm bush wear and pitman arm bush wear, and it is for good. For readers who don't know the idler arm bush and the pitman arm pivot bush are both made of rubber.
.
At first glance it appears the use of rubber bushes was to improve driver comfort by preventing the transmission of road noise and vibration in to the steering wheel. Yet the rubber steering rag achieves that result without any further need for rubber in the steering bushes so I am at a loss to explain why they used such a deficient system if not to introduce inbuilt redundancy. The downside is the use of rubber bushes is that with normal use they quickly degrade and hence introduce slack into the steering feel and road handling by introducing 'soft spots' in the connection between the steering wheel and tierod ends.
Most enthusiast do know that even chrysler ultimately recognised the deficiencies of the rubber idler arm bush and they offerred as a spare part ( but not original equipment as did a lot of aftermarket suppliers) a idler arm bush bearing conversion that used 2 thrust style ball bearings. This conversion works very well in eliminating idler arm free play but it does have a couple of drawbacks. First drawback is there rarity these days and therefore the relatively high cost and second and more serious problem is the ball bearings are in my opinion too light duty for the task and it is common to find they have cracked their races and need replacing.
It always struck me as odd that Chrysler used rubber bushings in the steering components.
With this in mind a few years back i embarked on a solution to the problem.
I decided to eliminate the idler arm rubber pivot bush and replace it with a solid machined bush.
I simply press out the factory bush and turn up a new bush that is the same external dimensions but is designed to swivel in the idler arm housing. Most enthusiasts have a number of idler arms that are worn on the bush end but perfect at the ball joint end so when the ball joint on your current arm wears out simply transfer the bush to the next arm.
See the attached pics, my early versions used brass but my current ones are aluminum which are proving to be just as durable. See the pics below for the detail.
Once the bush is now fitted with a grease nipple and should be greased every service.
This has worked reliably in two all of my valiants for more than 5 years without problem.
Three of my solid bush equipped cars are power steering models that are murderous on regular steering parts as their daily pilots think nothing of screwing the the steering wheel from lock to lock without moving the car a millimetre when parking.
Soon to be attached is a drawing showing the bushes critical dimensions.
Obviously I made these on a lathe, but any competent machine shop could whip one up very quickly.
Stay tuned also soon to be featured is the solid bush pitman arm conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REVHEAD360
Dave it looks the goods mate & it certainly would help BUT theres 2 things I feel that would need addressing 1) the grease nipple where shown is in a HIGH stress area that would be possible for it to failure at that point & you could imagine the fun a lawyer would have with that if it caused an accident, the grease nipple SHOULD be at the end of the bolt (grade 8 prefer) & feed through a hole in the side of it & have 2 holes in the bush so the grease will still finds it's way through...
Number 2) The original chassis bracket isn't / wasn't designed to take this force transfer through it as the bush was designed to take any yaw etc through it not the bracket so I believe again to stop eventual failure it'd have to be reinforced with a gusset to the chassis & also made to be thicker say 5mm & weld it on a 3mm plate top & bottom to help achieve this, other than that mate it's a bloody ripper of a solution to the age old problem with CAL's conversion, Well done!
Unfortunately the grease nipple needs to be in the arm or the bush as the lube is required between the bush and the arm not inbetween the bolt and the bush.
As the aluminum bush is pinched in the bracket between the top and bottom flanges the same way that the original rubber bush is retained.
I have found through experience that the grease nipple needs to be where it is currently placed to allow easy access for servicing and it doesn't get sheared off by contact with the mounting point in the arms normal range of operation.
I have found the factory mounting bracket to be sound after 5 years of use in a heavy VG V8 coupe (1680Kg) with power steering and with all the other fruit, I know that it is not definitive testing but my family member drivers thinks nothing of screwing the steering stop to stop when parking and the car has very sticky pirrelli tyres and the mount is exhibiting no signs of distress.
Last edited by Dave999 on Mon Aug 10, 09 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying