Charger Rebuild

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 25, 04 3:42 pm

Ok then guys, here we go.

I am planning the Aussie Charger strip down and rework. I need your advice and help to make the right decisions for the car. When we have come to the best solution I will go after that and follow it through.

My current ideas are:

Front: AlterKation kit including the Willwood discs, rubber engine mounts to insulate vibration.

http://www.bigblockdart.com/alterktion/ ... ion2.shtml

Rear: undecided yet but leafs with watts linkage is a possibility. I want the car to take a Pro Touring stance and to be able to handle accordingly. There is no reason why a light (2700 lbs stock), 99" wheelbase muscle car can't run rings around all but the most up to date supercars. I really want to keep a solid axle for strength and an 8 3/4 conversion with 3.91 ratio and a posi is my current thinking. I definately want rear disks and as stronger setup as possible.

Engine: 360 stroker (408), looking for somewhere in the region of 500hp. Ally heads, cam, rods, high comp pistons etc. This can really be decided later as it will be the last bit to be done after the body etc. We could even build the motor after the car is back on the road and run a stockish 318 for a while first.

Trans: Initially I was taken with Dave Robsons work on the 6 speed but ultimately it will beat me I think (financially aswell as mentally). Then I looked to some of those big Jerico trans but they are way too expensive and quite high maintanence. Since I didn't really want a traditional A833 I have arrived at this.

http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar/transm ... _67-76.asp

I am looking to put in frame connectors and possibly a roll cage (please advise accordingly). I want a car that looks mean but understated if you get my meaning. I want a full interior and to retain as much of the original styling as possible. Obviously modern wheels are going to have to be used to obtain the handling characteristics I want but I don't want rubber band 19" boy racer wheels, I want ones that fit and do the job, I was thinking somewhere in the region of 16" with 40 or 50 series tyres.

Body: Stock as possible but the idea of a fibreglass hood and trunk lid is there. I'm not sure about other glass panels yet, and I want to keep glass windows really. It is essentially to remain as a street car and an easy MOT is preferable (with the exception of volume!)

I will spend money but as I am a student it is a function of time. So any mega expensive bits like the trans and the front frame etc will be worked towards. Hence it is a longish project. The main thing is quality and reliability. I want to do as much work as possible myself (pretty much all of it) but I will need some help from time to time (most of the time come to think of it).

So guys advise away and lets come up with a plan for an awsome car. I am going to the nats if some of you want to sit down and draw up some plans with me?

Please???

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sun Jul 25, 04 4:52 pm

Well, my thoughts are this, by the time you add up all the parts needed for the Keisler set up it will turn out pretty costly and cosidering it is designed for LHD you would still need to alter stuff to make it work in a RHD car. Keisler also have a bad reputation for service, I have read many a story about them on "Moparts". I think the Gear vendors 727 overdrive set up is not only cheaper but also the better way to go and a lot less hassle to fit as well. With the gear vendors set up you would be able to fit the ideal diff ratio to go drag racing, and with the overdrive you still get to keep your top speed and sensible rpm the rest of the time, what more could you want? Manual transmissions are also hard on parts and require regular adjustment and clutches are expensive and won't last too long with 500hp, none of this is good if you are on a budget. I would be happy to assemble a 727 with a gear vendors fitted which would almost bolt straight in and give years of trouble free service. I would fit 17" wheels rather than 16" because there is a much better selection of tyres available for them, this size wheel still looks fine on a larger car, you would not end up with the max power look!

TrevD · Post by **TrevD** » Sun Jul 25, 04 4:52 pm

all sounds good , alterkation kit is a verry nice piece , im sure thay are working on a right hend drive one for Andy neil , it might be an idea to talk to him abbout it .
rear end , watts linkage works verry well ( ask any scimitar driver)but not sure abbout with leaf springs . why not look at a 4 link and coil overs this will be more adjustable for the desired look.
i was going the frame conectors + cage route ( but now im building a full frame + cage ) your way will make the body verry rigid .

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Sun Jul 25, 04 5:28 pm

What's you Budget?

This is more about Project Management than fabircation.

You will end up with a car costing ?25K that is work ?8.5K; and any modern car will still out-perform it in th eround.

Either that or you will end up with a car in bits for the next 10 years.

Just drive it and enjoy it.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sun Jul 25, 04 5:44 pm

That's right, planning is all important, only take the car off the road to do work that you have enough money and time to complete, and then get driving it again! Your ideas are doable if you tackle one job at a time with a fixed goal in mind.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 25, 04 5:59 pm

Ok then Blue, you've convinced me that a Gear Vendors Overdrive is a better way to go, I'll look into it further. It was the wiring and electrical jazz that was worrying me about it cause I am a bit of an electrical numpty.

Someone had said to me they were very expensive also. I will consult you further on this if that is ok? I'd quite like to learn how to build a trans myself if that is possible?

Trev, I am in correspondance with Bill Reilly about the RHD version on Tweaty, and I am looking with great interest to see the results. I had originally thought of making a 4 link system for the back but a few guys convinced me out of it at this point, my main concern is to reduce lateral movement of the axle under cornering and a Watts would offer me more travel than a panhard rod on leaves. Then my lecturer pointed out that actually leafs are quite resistant to lateral movement anyhow. He also thinks anti roll bars on the rear are not so clever, I can't remember the exact reason but it is something to do with resolution of forces. Intrestingly I sent an E-Mither to Rick Ehrenberg asking advice on this and he told be to be careful with tubular 'K's, he's pointed me to something Dick Ross (firmfeel) is doing.

The problem is here almost no-one agrees. The Alterkation kit does look strong and addresses the problem of the shock tower not being designed to take the weight of the car. But I don't know how it will fare under hard cornering since there are no control arms to restrict longitudal movement of the wheels and it's current development work has been mainly for drag racing.

Pete, I realise I will spend more than the car is worth, but since this is for my own enjoyment and I am not going to sell the car I am willing to lay it out. I have already spent more on it than I will ever get back (Re: Muppet Man). I am doing all the bodywork and paint myself (with the help of Tony Froome who's workshop I have invaded) and it is really an exercise in learning and enjoyment than investment, with hopefully the end result of a really wild ride.

Please keep 'em coming guys.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Sun Jul 25, 04 7:00 pm

James you have already learnt a hell of a lot in the short time you have been in this game. One thing you still need to learn is ambition and capability are two different things.

In other words walk before you run otherwise you can easily fall on your bum.

Yes the 5-speed is getting a lot of negative press. The things I am hearing are they are much harder to fit than they say and need much more metal work than you might expect. Plus there are after sales service issues that have never been addressed as far as I know. Once you pay for it - it is your problem to fit and get working. If it breaks you are on your own too.

I was only Gear Vendors second UK customer (the first being a GM truck owner) and again there are problems they do not tell you about. However now I have been there and done that it is not a problem any more as long as you speak to someone like me or Blue who followed my progress via my message board. Maintaining correct output shaft end-play with their tailshaft/adapter in place being the main thing and making sure you get the short version of their 90 degree speedo drive.

The electrical connections are the easy bit. Everything is ready just to plug together. You don't even have to cut or crimp anything other than the +ve feed and the earth connection. Cost is about ?1000 with shipping.

I would also not worry too much about light weight parts at this stage except maybe for a glass hood. These chargers are so damn light to start with it is going to run high 10s anyway with a 500hp small block.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 25, 04 7:08 pm

I'm convinced that the Gear Vendors Overdrive is the way to go, it's the cheaper option!!!!!!

TrevD · Post by **TrevD** » Sun Jul 25, 04 7:47 pm

James , we have 2 evenings of ( beer fueled ) banter at the weekend , i have found in the past that for every 10 stupid ideas 1 good one apears, im hopeing to gain some knowledge from the gurus so i dont make too many mistakes , maybe a few of us can get together and have a brain storming sesion ( im told this its the current name for a discussion) and we can all gain from it.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 25, 04 8:14 pm

That sounds like an awsome idea.

Maybe some of the clever people here (Alex, Blue, Dave, Ivor etc) could do some tech seminars, or at least a more informal version

, at the Nats???

It'd be great to get an opportunity to sit down and nail out a proper plan for the car. Any volunteers?

Dave, I'm (and more importantly, Laura is) sold on the Gear Vendors setup, with your experience to draw on it I'm sure I can succeed with it. I am still very keen on the AlterKation front end but I may need some more convincing before parting with cash, seeing yours should do that Blue. I will be looking for an 8 3/4 axle too. Aside from that I can't think of any other major changes I am going to make to start with.

The back end can wait until I see how the front behaves and the motor can be built later, using the trusty 318 to start with. Does that sound sensible?

The whole reason for this extreme action has been brought on by the fact that I want to do the Hardtop, but it will take so long to do that by the time I have finished the Charger will have completely disintergrated. So I want to do the important stuff on the Charger now rather than later.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Sun Jul 25, 04 9:46 pm

I understand your concerns over the AlterKation front end kit too James. I feel it needs a diagonal strut to prevent fore/aft movement on the control arms and is there any provision for an anti-roll bar?

Feel free to jack my car up and have a look at the overdrive unit.

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Mon Jul 26, 04 9:22 am

Wow, that's one hell of a plan James!

One thing I can tell you is that despite your best efforts, it'll take you twice as long to do it as you think, but it will ensure Laura knows where you are most of the time

Now, how about ditching the whole five or six speed idea and banging in a trusty Torqueflite with a Columbia Two Speed Axle? Sorted!:D

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jul 26, 04 11:48 am

ditto whats been said on the 17" wheels... better selection of rims and offsets in 17" size, and then 16" tyres are about twice the price of 17s. Only thing to worry about is how much sidewall you want vs. the rolling radius. I just went and bought a set of 16s for the Chrysler. Was advised against 17s as the ride is too harsh for a luxury sedan with them on due to lack of give as theres not enough sidewall. That and the fact I got a deal on the ones I liked in a 16...

They've not arrived yet but when they do I'll discover if I've made a mistake.

Do you have the small or large bolt pattern? You're welcome to try 'em on your motor to get a visual idea.