Hi everyone, probably a bit of a silly question, but what do people think of the xv motorsports chassis stiffening products? I inow chassis ties are widely considered something that should gave been fitted from new, butvwhat about shock tower braces and the like? Are there any real benefits or is it all a bit unnecessary?
Cheers
Pete
Question on XV motorsports products
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Dave-R
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Expensive tat you don't need unless you are one serious circuit racer.
I would leave the XV stuff to the rich americans with wallets bigger than their brains. They are their main customer base.
The Hotchkiss stuff is good for a lot less and I would be very tempted by some of their products. But you can still do more of less the same with much cheaper parts.
Talk to Drew on here. He has a modified Challenger that sees occasional track action.
I would leave the XV stuff to the rich americans with wallets bigger than their brains. They are their main customer base.
The Hotchkiss stuff is good for a lot less and I would be very tempted by some of their products. But you can still do more of less the same with much cheaper parts.
Talk to Drew on here. He has a modified Challenger that sees occasional track action.
Depends on your goals. Not necessary for cruising, very beneficial for autocross. If I were only do one thing (after frame connectors) I would add the welded braces from the firewall to the shock towers (underneath the fenders). The bolted shock tower braces I'm not convinced - and they look horrible too.
XV did raise the bar and we can thank them for that. However their cust service reputation is not good, and there are now other companies offering similar products (check out US Car Tools fender braces or Hotchkiss stuff).
Also needs to be part of a holistic approach - no point in rigid shock towers and then having the stock floppy steering box mounting.
So again, depends on what you are trying to achieve
XV did raise the bar and we can thank them for that. However their cust service reputation is not good, and there are now other companies offering similar products (check out US Car Tools fender braces or Hotchkiss stuff).
Also needs to be part of a holistic approach - no point in rigid shock towers and then having the stock floppy steering box mounting.
So again, depends on what you are trying to achieve
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
your shock towers on a mopar carry very little load.
so a shock tower brace is really for show
i can see the benefit of the inner fender braces
and the engine compartmnet braces becasue they basicaly work directly on the area where the upper control arm connects
they would certainly assist the stock suspension in working better
the lower chassis is already braced up front by the K member so as long as its mounts are good it should be good
time could be spent seam welding the K member while it is bolted to a jig of some sort (like another K member)
and putting some bulkheads into the lower control arm pressings to avoid twist but still keep em reasonably light
you can also weld corners into the upper control arm mounts just to brace them. cut a circle of steel into 4 and weld a 1/4 in between inner guard and mount avoiding blocking the cam bolt.
was a chrylser ausstralia bulletin showing exactly how to do this in the mid 70s becasue their un capped roads caused fatigue in this area within 3-4 years once the moved to their post 71 HEAVY version of the A body
chassis connectors
2 views
a chassis connector that is contoured to the floor of the car and welded to it along its full length is good howevre is only as strong as its narrowest depth.
a chassis connector that is basically a rectangular tube tied in front and rear with a cross brace say at the seat belt mounts and a tie in to the floor where close could well be stronger becasue the rectangular tube is by nature of being a drawn 4 sided structure is a much stronger piece
you would weld in either only with the car perfectly level and supported on all wheels with the doors shut
this is based on what i have read not what i have done
the the rear good oil or KYB gas adjust shocks
retempered orginal springs
only bother with a anti sway bar at the rear if you can't get the ride and handling right with the combo of rear springs and shocks and the correct thickness front torsion bars and anti sway bar.
With the suspension set to 1/2 inch or more space off the front bumpstops but no higher than standard. ideally the car should be level so you can have some positive caster
again advice i was given not what i have done.......yet
Dave
so a shock tower brace is really for show
i can see the benefit of the inner fender braces
and the engine compartmnet braces becasue they basicaly work directly on the area where the upper control arm connects
they would certainly assist the stock suspension in working better
the lower chassis is already braced up front by the K member so as long as its mounts are good it should be good
time could be spent seam welding the K member while it is bolted to a jig of some sort (like another K member)
and putting some bulkheads into the lower control arm pressings to avoid twist but still keep em reasonably light
you can also weld corners into the upper control arm mounts just to brace them. cut a circle of steel into 4 and weld a 1/4 in between inner guard and mount avoiding blocking the cam bolt.
was a chrylser ausstralia bulletin showing exactly how to do this in the mid 70s becasue their un capped roads caused fatigue in this area within 3-4 years once the moved to their post 71 HEAVY version of the A body
chassis connectors
2 views
a chassis connector that is contoured to the floor of the car and welded to it along its full length is good howevre is only as strong as its narrowest depth.
a chassis connector that is basically a rectangular tube tied in front and rear with a cross brace say at the seat belt mounts and a tie in to the floor where close could well be stronger becasue the rectangular tube is by nature of being a drawn 4 sided structure is a much stronger piece
you would weld in either only with the car perfectly level and supported on all wheels with the doors shut
this is based on what i have read not what i have done
the the rear good oil or KYB gas adjust shocks
retempered orginal springs
only bother with a anti sway bar at the rear if you can't get the ride and handling right with the combo of rear springs and shocks and the correct thickness front torsion bars and anti sway bar.
With the suspension set to 1/2 inch or more space off the front bumpstops but no higher than standard. ideally the car should be level so you can have some positive caster
again advice i was given not what i have done.......yet
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
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Dave-R
- Posts: 24752
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 11:23 pm
- Location: Dave Robson lives in Geordieland
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I wouldn't use those KYB "gas adjust" shocks unless the budget is REALLY tight.
I HIGHLY recommend QA1 adjustable shocks. They are a little more expensive but my god they work amazingly well and you can adjust them with just a click of a dial on each one.
Chassis connectors make the biggest difference. Good heavy sway bars too.
The front steering and suspension is where it gets tricky. There is a lot of movement in the bushes and flex in the control arms. Power steering can feel like it has a lot of play.
Better front end geometry makes driving more of a treat. But that could mean replacing the upper control arms to get decent caster angle and re-enforcing the LCA.
Some people swear by fitting adjustable LCA strut rods to pre-load the LCA by pulling it forward which increases the caster angle and stops it moving fore and aft on the bush.
I HIGHLY recommend QA1 adjustable shocks. They are a little more expensive but my god they work amazingly well and you can adjust them with just a click of a dial on each one.
Chassis connectors make the biggest difference. Good heavy sway bars too.
The front steering and suspension is where it gets tricky. There is a lot of movement in the bushes and flex in the control arms. Power steering can feel like it has a lot of play.
Better front end geometry makes driving more of a treat. But that could mean replacing the upper control arms to get decent caster angle and re-enforcing the LCA.
Some people swear by fitting adjustable LCA strut rods to pre-load the LCA by pulling it forward which increases the caster angle and stops it moving fore and aft on the bush.
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Pete_B
Thanks for the comprehensive replies guys, i have to admit i did think that the components from XV looked very pricey for what they are, but i think the ideas behind the components seemed good, particularly the inner fender braces.
In terms of my goals for the car my main aim is really just to get her set up and handling as well as possible whilst remaining relatively original in terms of structure and appearance.
Dave would you mind if i picked your brains on the modifications to your old challenger some time?
In terms of my goals for the car my main aim is really just to get her set up and handling as well as possible whilst remaining relatively original in terms of structure and appearance.
Dave would you mind if i picked your brains on the modifications to your old challenger some time?
I can chime in on this if you dont mind, one thing for sure is if you plan on driving it on the street done stiffen it up to much , sub frame connectors are my limit ,
but I know someone with the XV unit on their cuda and he loves it except ...it uses a rack steering system and the car has some minor bump steer issues ,also for the money it really didnt make the car faster , it just mainly changed the way it drove.
I like the stock torsion bar system it is a bit weak in the LCAS so reinforce those,and yes I highly recommend the qa1,s well worth the money it is arguably the best component I have added to the car besides 17 x 8 inch wheels and tires.
I have also as of late added adjustable strut rods allowing more castor as Dave said but I now hear/feel the road a bit more since there is no bushing in the LCA it kind of rings the K frame a bit if that makes any sense to you
Keep it simple and keep with the factory geometry as much as possible.
The XV system requires you to gut the shock towers and install coilovers something these frames were not designed or intended for,
It does however allow more room for headers
but I know someone with the XV unit on their cuda and he loves it except ...it uses a rack steering system and the car has some minor bump steer issues ,also for the money it really didnt make the car faster , it just mainly changed the way it drove.
I like the stock torsion bar system it is a bit weak in the LCAS so reinforce those,and yes I highly recommend the qa1,s well worth the money it is arguably the best component I have added to the car besides 17 x 8 inch wheels and tires.
I have also as of late added adjustable strut rods allowing more castor as Dave said but I now hear/feel the road a bit more since there is no bushing in the LCA it kind of rings the K frame a bit if that makes any sense to you
Keep it simple and keep with the factory geometry as much as possible.
The XV system requires you to gut the shock towers and install coilovers something these frames were not designed or intended for,
It does however allow more room for headers