db's Nats report

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Fri Aug 02, 13 4:48 pm

Paul, I have to agree with Pete when he says it'll drive like a bear trap...okay for a few runs up the strip, but you'll break everything on the way!

I know you won't take a blind bit of notice (!) but a properly built torqueflite with billet internals will ensure you get to the strip and back...what's more it'll probably be a lot quicker!

pete walton · Post by **pete walton** » Fri Aug 02, 13 5:59 pm

I had a 4 speed 67 Mustang back in the day ,,,I put a fancy Hays clutch pack in that ,,,,Drove the backside of it and never had a problem....Can,t you get twin clutch packs these days ???with fancy flywheels etc ,,,Downside is you land up with one leg like a fiddler crab,,,and I do remember having the old leg shakes in traffic ....but chuff me you can,t beat rowing a 4 speed

Bozwell · Post by **Bozwell** » Fri Aug 02, 13 6:18 pm

modern triple clutches are super light. can be a bit snatchy but otherwise very easy to use. we use them in the race Jags, some are still road cars.

db · Post by db » Fri Aug 02, 13 6:27 pm

I know what your saying and you're usually right but...

I suppose this is something I need to get out of my system the hard way and I ain't ready to give in yet!!
I do LOVE slamming through those gears

There's some great looking 2-plate one's out there, out of my present budget but by next year if I'm a good boy and I save all my pennies...

Drew... thanks man

So as I can start pricing up parts...
Can anyone offer ANY info to help i.d. my valves, etc?

Make, type, material, etc, please.

Valves look stainless but not sure, I need the make please, 2.05" x 5.02" stem 11/32" Head is Indy so could be Edelbrock or Indy but I can't find any that match in their lists.

Valve guide I assume is bronze but unknown make, prob Edelbrock/ Indy?

Retainers & collets are 10 degree, dimensions as pic. I'm replacing the set so any recommended supplier/ material please?

Seal - teflon?

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Fri Aug 02, 13 6:30 pm

Hi Paul,
just got back from my extended Nats holiday (via Centre Parcs!) and read your write up. It was a pleasure to meet you and the Welsh guys and try to find bits and pieces over the weekend. Glad you enjoyed yourself despite the breakages. Let's see you out for the Hot Rod Drags

Cannonball · Post by **Cannonball** » Fri Aug 02, 13 6:40 pm

i would racon david billadough
or jon connelly on havin valves paul

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Fri Aug 02, 13 7:56 pm

They are one piece stainless valves.

The aftermarket intakes are usually 2.02" but I have seen 2.055" and 2.08" listed on the Hughes Engines website.

Jon Connolly · Post by **Jon Connolly** » Fri Aug 02, 13 8:47 pm

Hi Paul

Can you show us the whole head please

2.05 is used on some of them

db · Post by db » Sat Aug 03, 13 12:23 am

Jon- they're Edelbrock Indy, ported by Ray Barton

db · Post by db » Sat Aug 03, 13 12:37 am

This from the Hughes Engines site.. opinions please?

7° vs. 10° locks. We do not recommend 10° locks unless you are using extremely high valve spring pressures (such as 650lbs or more open pressure). The colleting action (clamping) of 7° is much tighter than the 10°. If you should encounter valve float, 10° locks will unlock much easier than 7° locks.

pete walton · Post by **pete walton** » Sat Aug 03, 13 8:54 am

db wrote:This from the Hughes Engines site.. opinions please?

7° vs. 10° locks. We do not recommend 10° locks unless you are using extremely high valve spring pressures (such as 650lbs or more open pressure). The colleting action (clamping) of 7° is much tighter than the 10°. If you should encounter valve float, 10° locks will unlock much easier than 7° locks.

I would check the springs on the heads are compatable with the cam...If you caused the damage by spinning it up to much then it was not really a valve train failure as such just a failure to cope with 7500 ....The valve train is possibly good for your set up...I would check all the valves and springs for damage ...If you have the budget change the valves and springs you may have weakened one and its ready to break... Your cam has a thick end of .600 lift so get a set of springs to suit that lift....check the lifters as well ......just take your time and get it right..... I am guessing the clutch was slipping like mad and the engine overrevved....a rev limiter will solve that .... has your rev counter got a tell tale???tells you what you max revs were during a run...TAKE YOUR TIME ,,that's something I have learnt to my cost...Mancinis sell valve guides and all the stuff for these heads,,, If you can buy new ,,,you then know there history ,,,,,I have done the second hand bit and once again payed for it .... I am not an engine expert ,but I am an expert on wasting money on crap

pete walton · Post by **pete walton** » Sat Aug 03, 13 10:32 am

db if I have read all this right,, I shall then presume all this valve train was matched when you built it...I just done a quick check and the Eddy heads stock springs which I am presuming these are, work up to .575 your cam is .585...That does not sound a lot but there is no margin there at all...have you got a flow chart for these heads ???is the cam to big???Homewok MR DB...lets get this car flying ,,,do some homework

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Sat Aug 03, 13 10:39 am

It was all Part-matched and built in the 'States - hence the custom push rods. For a Small Block it was quite a big money engine when it was built.

You may wish to re-think the set up and go for a street roller cam - Ultradyne are now defunct anyway (got taken over / became "Bullet Cams") and the technology has moved on a fair bit.

Given your location (middle of nowhere!!) I think you may have to consider compromising a bit in terms of driveability / reliability if you intend making a regular exodus to the Track and not using a trailer..........

pete walton · Post by **pete walton** » Sat Aug 03, 13 11:07 am

pete walton wrote:db if I have read all this right,, I shall then presume all this valve train was matched when you built it...I just done a quick check and the Eddy heads stock springs which I am presuming these are, work up to .575 your cam is .585...That does not sound a lot but there is no margin there at all...have you got a flow chart for these heads ???is the cam to big???Homewok MR DB...lets get this car flying ,,,do some homework

Got that wrong your cam is.390..... memo to self read all the thread....

db · Post by db » Sat Aug 03, 13 12:08 pm

pete walton wrote: I would check the springs on the heads are compatable with the cam...If you caused the damage by spinning it up to much then it was not really a valve train failure as such just a failure to cope with 7500 ....The valve train is possibly good for your set up... Yup, I'm sure the valve train was fine and it was the over-revving that killed it.

I would check all the valves and springs for damage ...If you have the budget change the valves and springs you may have weakened one and its ready to break... At the moment I have NO budget. I'll check them all carefully and get my engineer mate's second opinion. I'll have to just replace what's needed I think.

Your cam has a thick end of .600 lift so get a set of springs to suit that lift.... Would I need to speak to Ultradyne? I don't know what ratio my lifters are

check the lifters as well ...... A couple took a few knocks from the pushrods. There's no way I could replace the lot (£1000+). I doubt I can buy just one lifter? Again I'll take them to my engineer and see what he thinks

just take your time and get it right..... Absolutely- spot on advice

I am guessing the clutch was slipping like mad I've no doubt about that now- the pic from Simon and the Eurodrag vid show that pretty clearly.

and the engine overrevved....a rev limiter will solve that .... If only... An expensive and painful lesson I won't forget!!

has your rev counter got a tell tale??? tells you what you max revs were during a run... Yes, that's how I knew I'd hit 7500rpm

TAKE YOUR TIME ,,that's something I have learnt to my cost...Mancinis sell valve guides and all the stuff for these heads,,, If you can buy new ,,,you then know there history ,,,,, Agreed. Thanks I'll contact Mancinis, I'd rather buy the lot from one place, more chance of it being right.
I have done the second hand bit and once again payed for it .... I am not an engine expert ,but I am an expert on wasting money on crap

Thanks for the sound advice Pete, I'm in no hurry so I hope I'll do it right and learn from my (and others' mistakes