Wider wheels on the back, tubbing, moving spring hangers...

GJUK · Post by **GJUK** » Wed Jan 22, 14 12:15 pm

Hi,

Could someone please advise with regards to a Dart 68 shell.

If I had the spring hangers moved in on my car inwards, what gains would I get please for putting larger wheels and tyres on the car?

Is mini tubbing really required or would I gain a couple of inches by moving the hangers only?

Thanks

Jon

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Wed Jan 22, 14 12:30 pm

Take advice from Blue and his thread, but the limit to the width of your wheels in the rear will be the inner rear wheel well as that is a fixed entity irrespective of the spring location. The latter will give room for more wheel, but the inner wheel well is the issue for 'big' wheels.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Jan 22, 14 1:19 pm

There are a number of issues here.
You can make your own mind up, but you need to be aware of the consequences of some decisions.

Ivor can fully fill you in on BIVA.
The Rules are pretty clear, but then the question of enforcement and ability to police it come into play.

Incidentally, what size tyres are you aiming for?

Having measured my Dart up recently, with everything stock, you can get a 255 x 60 x 15 tyre on a 7" Rim under there.
Wheel off-set is also critical when you have limited space or great expectations.

If that meets your needs then you will save yourself a lot of grief and expense.

Offset hangers buy you another 3/4" either side but you have to move the Perches, which will mean re-setting the pinion angle...it goes on and on....the slab sides of a Dart's Quarter panels are one big limiting factor - you can get bigger tyres under a later "A" Body Barracuda.

I had 10.5" wide slicks on my Dart, but everything was cut to death.....and it was a ladder bar car too, which gave me extra room....it is the cross section width of Slicks that does you in...

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Jan 22, 14 1:24 pm

...also the shape of the Outer wheelhouse means you cannot put in as bigger tyre as you think, which is another reason why people mini-tub....usually the wheel opening Lip on the Quarther panel has to go bye bye, so that loses a degree of strength as well......

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Wed Jan 22, 14 1:48 pm

Pete wrote:
Ivor can fully fill you in on BIVA.
The Rules are pretty clear, but then the question of enforcement and ability to police it come into play.

.

Basically if you modify the monocoque, which includes tubs, the DVLA can have your V5, it's just the government doesn't have the money or the manpower to enforce it.

With DVLA regional centres closing, it looks like VOSA may be responsible for inspecting vehicles.

In the case of cars that are already registered, like Blue's Valiant it shouldn't really be an issue, unless you are very unlucky and get pulled by VOSA for an inspection, or you choose an over enthusiastic MOT man who decides he's going to tick the "modified" box at MOT time.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Jan 22, 14 1:52 pm

I think there is a Grandfather clause there, so even if your car is registered and has a V5; if it has been modified after about 1990 (or you can't prove it was before the specific date) I think they can still cut your plums off..........in theory......

The REAL bitch is if you ever have an accident (some Twat could hit YOU) and they check the car over...bye bye insurance if you are very unlucky.....as I said; know the risks......

GJUK · Post by **GJUK** » Wed Jan 22, 14 2:38 pm

Pete wrote:
The REAL bitch is if you ever have an accident (some Twat could hit YOU) and they check the car over...bye bye insurance if you are very unlucky.....as I said; know the risks......

I've heard all about this before.

I do not agree with the insurance comment however, if the modifications are mentioned on the policy, it's up to your insurer to advise if they will insure you or not. Assuming the car has an MOT (hooky or not) it's legal.

Maybe I should not change anything for the time being :-/ Hmmm.

Thank you all.

GJUK · Post by **GJUK** » Wed Jan 22, 14 3:04 pm

So,

If I leave the rear stock, what are the widest wheels and tyres I can get on the dart please? Will I struggle with offset with a standard width axle?

and then again...

If I only move the hangers and springs in. Will I struggle to fill the arches with a standard width axle due to wheel offset?

Thank you

Jon

Six-pack Speedshop · Post by **Six-pack Speedshop** » Wed Jan 22, 14 3:24 pm

I guess with stock everything you can go to a 255 tire max. But not sure as I did it myself with my own Duster which is slightly different then the Dart and I didn't went with stock... Got out the saw right away when it arrived from the US. Now it has 335/35/17 tires under it.

GJUK · Post by **GJUK** » Wed Jan 22, 14 4:54 pm

How much would I gain in inches if I moved the rear leaf springs in wards only, no tubs added?

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Wed Jan 22, 14 5:51 pm

Don't be too sure that an MOT makes your car legal. Plenty of guys on here with non amber indicators, incorrect number plates etc..VOSA will use Construction and Uses regulations which are far more stringent than any MOT requirement.
Alerting your modifications to the insurance company is a good idea, though.

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Wed Jan 22, 14 6:10 pm

If you do your mods, you can fit 10.5 slick or a 12" street tyre on a 10 or 12" rim with between 6-1/2 to 7" Back space on a stock axle, which is 57-3/8 wide, that is wheel to wheel, basically axle complete.

Dart Vader · Post by **Dart Vader** » Wed Jan 22, 14 7:28 pm

The other thing to consider Jon is that some cars can fit those tyres, others can't due to the vagueness of panel sizes

V8 Sam has 70 Dart, I have a 70 Dart, same specs etc

He can fit 245 under his, the most I can is 225's

Same year same panel, different sizes!

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Wed Jan 22, 14 7:40 pm

What Justin said plus the axles aren't always centred under the car so a wide tyre will foul the arch on one side, but not the other

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Wed Jan 22, 14 8:03 pm

Dart Vader wrote:The other thing to consider Jon is that some cars can fit those tyres, others can't due to the vagueness of panel sizes

V8 Sam has 70 Dart, I have a 70 Dart, same specs etc

He can fit 245 under his, the most I can is 225's

Same year same panel, different sizes!

You both running 8.75's Justin?