1971 duster 340 steering.

[Mitch]

Hi to Everyone
The worst day of the year is fast approaching. Yes you've guest it ""MOT""...
As an advisory last year, it said "steering system has slight free play detected at steering wheel", but as the car has only done approximately 300 miles in the last 12 months I wonder whether this is going to be a issue this year? On looking at the steering, I can't really see where the free play can be. Last year I had for the MOT, a new pitman arm fitted. The biggest steering component seems to be the manual steering box, which is not leaking. Is anyone aware of a whether an adjustment can be made on the steering box if necessary, or worst case scenario, where I could obtain a manual steering box in the UK. I know this is all hypothetical at the moment, and I won't know until the car is MOT'd, but i'm just trying to look into what my options would be. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Mitch & Carol

[MilesnMiles]

Mitch, is the steering box bolted right to the K frame? They can work loose.
I might be taking my car somewhere else for the MOT. These old cars do have some element of free play as standard compared to modern cars.

[Pete]

I think they are talking tosh...

Is this Manual or Power Steering?

[Dave81]

Mine failed on lots of minor issues like this last year (including what they have advised you for).

Lesson 1......choose the MOT man very carefully!!!

Had passed its last two no issues........

[Mossy68]

As echoed by others.
Try and find an MOT station that knows yanks.
Luckily the garage I use are sympathetic towards yanks , even to the point of different manufacturers traits ( Mopar steering !)
Obviously you need your vehicle to be safe but some parts on our cars will never be equivalent to a modern car !

[Dave999]

manual or power makes no odds

2 adjustmnets you can make.
1) mesh of sector with ballnut
2) preload on the bearings of the wormscrew


1) nut and screw in top cover. do this second
2) hex ring round the steering column end of box and the screw plug end of box


you should

remove box and set bearing preload properly with an inch lb torque wrnch and a steering box spline adaptor

but thats a pain in the ass..

so knock back the ring a good few turns to clean up the threads on the alluminium "headset" of the box headset cos it holds a caged ball bearing which it presses onto a race cut into the top of the worm shaft

then tap round the alluminum end (the head seat bit) in the top of the box 1-2 mm
and do the ring up again

1/2 of a long wooden broom handle and a hammer ideal for both ring and knocking the box end round ring is steel box end is ally.

once done

up with the front end

steering lock off

wind the box from end to end

then set to middle

undo lock nut on top
do up the adjuster hand tight with a short spanner

wind lock to lock checking for stiffness in the middle
you back of the adjuster until you can just feel stiffness in the middle and do up the lock nut

that stiffness is hidden by the power assist on a power box once the engine starts and the MOT man will be happy

you need to be a little more careful with a manual box as noticable stiffness will be a failure

you can alway pass an mot with a much smaller steering wheel

play is mesured at the rim

hence a 10 inch wheel shows 1/2 the play that a 20 inch would

put your proper one on afterwards

however MOT men are not daft so have a good believable excuse for the "new steering wheel" a kart wheel on a mopar will look a bit daft



dave

[Pete]

Power DOES make a difference.

If they test it without the motor running there will be a big difference in play.......

I assume the car is manual though.......

[RobTwin]

I think they are talking tosh...

Is this Manual or Power Steering?

..........The biggest steering component seems to be the manual steering box, which is not leaking........

Manual?

[Dave81]

Power DOES make a difference.

If they test it without the motor running there will be a big difference in play.......

I assume the car is manual though.......

......Care to clarify Pete.

Are you saying that with the motor running there should be less slack/play (mine was tested with power off)????

[Dave-R]

Yanks cars with power steering need to be tested with the engine running.

Pete is right.

I thought everyone knew this.

[VGVIP]

I have always been under the impression that these old yank and aussie cars should be tested with the engine running if power steering.

Can anyone confirm my belief that point 5 under 'Method of inspection' applies only to modern R&P steering ?

"5. With the engine stopped and steering wheel lightly rocked, check for excessive free play between ball-pin and valve."


http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_230.htm


Don't forget to grease where applicable the ball joints and tie rod ends, if yours is a low mileage car do it before your MOT.

Just how much movement is there in your manual steering Mitch?

[Birdman]

Power DOES make a difference.

If they test it without the motor running there will be a big difference in play.......

I assume the car is manual though.......

I agree Pete, the MOT tester put mine down as an advisory on xs play, before my mate told him about needing the motor running if you have power steering.
Chris

[Dave999]

Power DOES make a difference.

does when you test as stated, but it doesn't to the two adjustments you can make to take out some play in the box. don't want to be hitting it with a broom handle and a hammer with the engine running



one other thing

you can always fill ya manual box with grease... US manual say No Aussie Manual says yes.

Same box different case

that has a positive effect as well.


PS there is not much at all inside a manual box

rebuild is not too hard..

seals would be your main issue and driving out the bushes.
no problem if its one with roller bearings. they fall out... just a pig to put back but some have bushes instead


inside

ballnut and worm shaft as seen in picture below get one with fat threads 20:1 or 16:1
that has no corrosion on the threads or the bearinng seats

it rides on 2 ball bearing races
like these (not saying these are correct youd have to ask)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200294209421? ... 1438.l2649


1 sector shaft a bit like this (no idea what its off has potential but a risk)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281027223035? ... 1438.l2649


and either 2 brassy/bronzy type bushes for the sector or 2 sets of needle rollers depends on vintage of box


there is a seal for the sector shaft at the bottom of the box which involves a trip to a bearing place to find and tapeing over the sector spline so you don't rip it when you build the box.

if you are buying new stuff

this is a reversed saginaw 525 box.
the splined end of the steering worm exits the box through the bearing preload adjuster, just about every other OEM using saginaw boxes or designs has that splined end come out the other end of the box.

any ballnut and screw you buy needs to have a thread going the way shown in the picture below and will have 1 clip for the ball guides held down with 1 small bolt not 3.

if you get one with the other thread and 3 hold down bolts when you turn your steering wheel to go left the wheels will go right

alright for a clown no good for the road.

to reclaim a ballnut and worm shaft.

clean up the teeth with a file
hard chrome the ballnut
replace ball bearings with the hardest ones you can find from simply bearings selection of imperial and metric loose balls.

do the same to the sector teeth clean em up and get that end hard chromed. new bearings and seal

rebuild

mopar performance do a 20:1 ratio ballnut and wormshaft but its expensive

aussie ballnuts can be used but you have to turn them round (a nut is a nut, but this one has teeth that only mesh correctly 1 way)

works out cheaper to find NOS or if you want a killer box send it to firm feel in the US and get a rebuilt one back.



Dave

[Dave999]

example of a ballnut and screw you DON'T want

looks good

deffo 16:1 ratio

but the thread is the wrong way and you have 2 screws holding down the ball guides

this is for a truck box for a situation where the layout is more Cab-Over and the box has its pitman facing the oposite direction

i.e fit it to you car and get you left and right the wrong way round

ratio and direction of steering is all in the ballnut and screw

Dave

[Mitch]

Thanks for all your replys and information something to think about, had same garage for all my American cars and have been good just concerned about this. cheers mitch