Stephen Fry tells it as it is........

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Sun Feb 15, 15 8:20 pm

Hardly........

If you read his post he's basically saying the teachings of Islam are barbaric even if the few moderates are not.

''Hopefully my point is obvious - if you want to point fingers at a RELIGION, look at what the RELIGION says - and in context, and in the round. Don't look at people who claim to represent that religion but do the opposite of what it says. Jesus said to love your enemy, bless those who persecute you. As he died he asked God to forgive those who had killed him.
I'm not an expert on Islam, but I've read a bit, and listened to a debate between two Muslim scholars, one moderate and one extreme, who were trying to justify their take on Islam using the Quran - I have the say the extremist make his case far better from referring to what the Quran actually said. But anyway, Muslims need to make their own case, I'm not one and can't speak for them. ''

Never expected you to follow though.

Think this is a wee bit above your pay grade.

db wrote:Love it, Gavin takes Andys argument apart and he congratulates him for it

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Sun Feb 15, 15 9:56 pm

Believe it or not I have Muslim friends, over twenty if I tally them up. Some full on Muslim and some that come drinking and take hookers back to the staff house. We often talk about this very subject, some with beer some without. Ive spent the majority of my working life working in Muslim countries. Once you get past the fluff and down to the nitty gritty they (the guys I know) all believe the Cur'an in its entirety. If a woman cheats they think nothing of having her stoned to death. If shira law was introduced to the UK they would not bat an eye lid. Passages such as this are whole heatedly believed and followed.

Qur’an:9:5 - “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

If you do not believe that these teachings are taught in every mosque in the UK you are deluded. Its more of a marathon than a sprint. Slowely yet surely the Islamification of the UK is happening.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 71635.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/421481 ... -boys-name

If this does not set alarm bells ringing then nothing will.

You asked what I think we should do? Well, when in Rome....... Whenever I work in a Muslim country I am very respectful of their religion, hence why I have so many Muslim friends. Im in their country, I realise I am to them an Infidel/Kafir and a second class person, just above Kafir S.E Asians. I dont try and force my beliefs on them or feel the need to demonstrate my rights to them, which in their country is zero anyway. Im a guest and I acknowledge this. I care little about what they do in their own countries. See, Ive just saved a few million bullets already.

I do feel that Muslims need curbed here in the UK. How this is accomplished I have no idea. The fact that 10,000 of them signed a doc regarding the Charlie Hedbo drawing should be a stark warning as to why. Unfortunately the liberal left and their PC nonsense have the UK by the Balls and in all honestly I cannot see a viable solution with them in power.

My aim to is to live quietly on a few acres of land with a big house and a few animals and surround myself with my friends and family and just enjoy life and pretend none of this is happening.

db wrote:Love it, Gavin takes Andys argument apart and he congratulates him for it

Banning religion is both impossible and pointless. Much as I dislike all forms of belief and I hope one day they will be gone, this can only happen through education. You can never stop someone believing something with violence, all that can ever achieve is more committed believers who want revenge. That stupid bloody cycle has been repeating since long before Islam or Christianity were thought up!
If you are right about Muslims Andy, what exactly are you proposing the world does about it? Kill them all? All 3,000,000,000 of them? After all there's no such thing as a good Muslim eh so you'll have to include ALL 3 billion. And any leftie sympathisers of course! There's too many to shoot though, the bullets would be too expensive and they keep dropping to their knees to pray just as you try to shoot 'em in the back! Concentration camps and gas chambers, yeah that's the way to go!
(shakes head in dismay...)

db · Post by db » Sun Feb 15, 15 11:15 pm

Well I can't argue with your experience in other countries as I have none. In this country, well I guess we don't have many Muslims in Wales. I don't believe ANY of the Bananarama! the papers spew out to further their own agendas, particularly those in Murdochs portfolio.
I agree the increase of Muslims here can only do harm, as I've said the world would be a more peaceful place if we were rid of all religion.
We know the Quran, as the bible, is very much open to interpretation. There ARE moderate Muslims who want peaceful co-existence. We just have to hope there are enough of them to gradually convince the nutters that they're wrong. It's pretty much worked in other religions. Christianity USED to be just as bad and the moderates have pretty much won that argument. It may take a hundred years or more but Islam will get there eventually.
If not, well then we're screwed

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Sun Feb 15, 15 11:25 pm

Guess we kinda agree then?

You dont have to say it here, you can PM me.

When you get a chance ask a moderate Muslim what they think about those passages in the Cur'an. Be interested to see what their reply is.

Do you honestly think Islam is getting less or more tolerant? Im curious?

Id hate to see the state of the UK in 20 years let alone 100. The liberal fluffy left are playing right into the hands of Muslim agenda. Unfortunately they are to tired after a hard pedal home to see this.

db wrote:Well I can't argue with your experience in other countries as I have none. In this country, well I guess we don't have many Muslims in Wales. I don't believe ANY of the Bananarama! the papers spew out to further their own agendas, particularly those in Murdochs portfolio.
I agree the increase of Muslims here can only do harm, as I've said the world would be a more peaceful place if we were rid of all religion.
We know the Quran, as the bible, is very much open to interpretation. There ARE moderate Muslims who want peaceful co-existence. We just have to hope there are enough of them to gradually convince the nutters that they're wrong. It's pretty much worked in other religions. Christianity USED to be just as bad and the moderates have pretty much won that argument. It may take a hundred years or more but Islam will get there eventually.
If not, well then we're screwed

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Sun Feb 15, 15 11:55 pm

I was just thinking. What are you actually basing your opinions on DB? You state you have little or no experience of the Muslim culture outside of the UK yet you say there is not many Muslims in Wales and you don't believe the papers. You must be basing your beliefs on something?

Do you think the papers are lying when they report on what's happening in Paris, Belgium, London and now Denmark! I'm genuinely curious.

(Not Dave bi/curious)

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Mon Feb 16, 15 12:03 am

db wrote:Well I can't argue with your experience in other countries as I have none. In this country, well I guess we don't have many Muslims in Wales. I don't believe ANY of the Bananarama! the papers spew out to further their own agendas, particularly those in Murdochs portfolio.
I agree the increase of Muslims here can only do harm, as I've said the world would be a more peaceful place if we were rid of all religion.
We know the Quran, as the bible, is very much open to interpretation. There ARE moderate Muslims who want peaceful co-existence. We just have to hope there are enough of them to gradually convince the nutters that they're wrong. It's pretty much worked in other religions. Christianity USED to be just as bad and the moderates have pretty much won that argument. It may take a hundred years or more but Islam will get there eventually.
If not, well then we're screwed

My my the indoctrination must start young in Wales

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Mon Feb 16, 15 12:09 am

Business as usual for the religion of peace.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... WU&cad=rja

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 0519,d.bGQ

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Feb 16, 15 9:11 am

Trigger_Andy wrote:Dave, Im not trying to justify the bible. You're missing the point in its entirety. The point is Christians used to be barbaric but today they rarely are. Most Christians do not even follow the bibles teachings anymore and make it up as they go along. Its all lip service. Muslims on the other hand follow the Cur'an to the letter and then some.

Well in some parts of the world they do follow the Bible literally. And in some parts of the world they don't follow the Quran literally. That is one of the points I was making.

In both you can pick out phrases you can interpret any way you want. Evil men will do this and convince others to follow. That can happen anywhere. That is why Buddhists are justifying murdering Muslims in Indonesia.

The reason we in this country are more moderate in our following of the Bible is because we are well educated compared to most parts of the world. People in Africa, India, the Middle East would never even THINK to question the existence of God.
Sheep herders in Afghanistan can't make any educated consideration of the morality of their beliefs.

When you have nothing your life means very little. And when you are taught from a child that your life is worth nothing until you die and go to heaven where you will be rewarded at last then that is what you are going to believe.

If however if you get a good education, good wages, a better standard of living, you start to question the benefit of the afterlife compared to what you have now and what you can give your kids as a lift up the ladder before you go.

The other thing that the "East" hates about the "West" is the destruction of their traditions and beliefs.

Look what has happened in this country. We are being swamped by American culture. Our food, drink, hobbies, language, etc have all been completely changed from what they were. I don't see anyone here complaining of that?

A lot of Muslims around the world are fighting to prevent the destruction of their culture. Which is EXACTLY what YOU are worried about right here.

It's all happened before. Many times. Look how hard the Britons fought against you Celt and Saxon immigrants that have the nerve to call other cultures for doing exactly the same thing.

You can't stop it. The world is getting smaller and smaller and the population bigger and bigger. If the Britons had succeeded in driving off the Saxons we wouldn't have an ENGLAND!

The fault for conflict is on both sides. We have to learn to live as one tribe just as we did under the Romans. Every person alive today came from the womb of the same ancestor. We are all related. We have somehow forgotten that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Mon Feb 16, 15 9:59 am

Great, so we should just bend over and take the pounding Islam is going to give us because in your view there is no other option and its the way its always been?

Your point regarding the lack of education of the Muslim world is laughable considering the access to tech these 'goat herders' have. They hack on-line, they produce slick footage of the regular beheading and they seem to make bombs no problem. They have access to the internet thats for sure. (Remember DB pointed out there are countless Millions of them, they dont all Heard Goats). The only reason 'British' Muslims would have a lack of education is due to their own faith and faith schools. These people generally do not want the lift up the ladder as you put it. They are trying to bring us generations backwards. Unfortunately the liberals and socialists are to busy wringing their hands to see that.

Yes, the West is becoming more and more Americanized (like my use of the Z instead of the S)

) I see it here in Scandinavia as well. But people generally are happy with this and I dont really care. Not so many are happy with what Islam is pushing on us. Many are too scared to speak out in fear of being branded what I was earlier in this post, sounding like Hitler. Again, more PC and liberal nonsense.

Would like to see some actual links to what you say as there has been loads posted regarding what our benign Muslim friends are up to not only in their goat feeeeking backwater countries but on our bloooody door steps.

DB said he basis his knowledge not on the media nor interaction with Muslims as there is little in Wales. Which makes me wonder what he actually is basing it on? I wonder what you are basing your wealth of knowledge of Islam on and if you have actually read the Cur'an?

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Feb 16, 15 11:40 am

Trigger_Andy wrote: I wonder what you are basing your wealth of knowledge of Islam on and if you have actually read the Cur'an?

Not all of it no.

I did read all of the Bible once. It had a Bananarama! ending.

I do work with quite a few Muslims and I have a couple of Muslim friends. Do you?

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Feb 16, 15 11:43 am

I would also like to know how much first hand experience you have had of an actual Muslim trying to impose Islam onto you personally?

Of are you just relaying what you see and hear in the Media?

I doubt there are that many Muslims either in Scotland or Scandinavia for you to come into contact with at all?

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Feb 16, 15 11:51 am

At the top of Northumberland Street in Newcastle there is always a group of Jehovah's Witnesses pushing their ideology on anyone unfortunate enough to walk past.

I've never in my life seen Muslims doing that no matter where I have been. But I have not been in some of the areas of London with large populations of people not of Anglo Saxon descent. I admit. Unless you count Croydon. Been there loads. Lots of Muslims there.

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Mon Feb 16, 15 11:57 am

I mentioned in an earlier post I have around 20 Muslim friends. That's globally. I covered pretty much what you asked.

Yes, there is a lot of Muslims in Norway. They are responsible for over 90% of the rapes here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... event.html

White non Muslim women are just dirty kafir to Muslims, it's in their Cur'an. You really should educate yourself Dave. Ask them about the hard hitting points in the Cur'an and ask their view points on them. Ask them what they believe will happen to you when you die. Ask them if they believe Shira law should be implemented in the UK. Ask them if they believe Halal meat is ethical. Ask them if the UK should be a Muslim country.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Feb 16, 15 12:01 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31484295

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Mon Feb 16, 15 12:05 pm

Do you have never seen Muslims demonstrating in the street either in person or on the news? Spewing their hate at our way of life and armed forces. You really do live in a bubble if you believe even half of what you babble.

As for JW's since you keep mentioning them. I've never seen them force thier women to be covered head to toe, force their women and children into arranged marriages, carry out honour killings, systematically rape girls of a differing demographic than themselves. Nor do they segregate themselves from the rest of the country in ghetos that make it impossible for Non JW's to live in. They do not slaughter animals in barbaric ways either, neither do they wage war globally against other religions or carry out terrorist attics globally.

Dave, you never really recovered all those years ago did you?

Dave wrote:At the top of Northumberland Street in Newcastle there is always a group of Jehovah's Witnesses pushing their ideology on anyone unfortunate enough to walk past.

I've never in my life seen Muslims doing that no matter where I have been. But I have not been in some of the areas of London with large populations of people not of Anglo Saxon descent. I admit. Unless you count Croydon. Been there loads. Lots of Muslims there.