Timing Light

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John
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Post by John »

Powermyster wrote:Cool thanks for that, everyday is a school day. I'll check it tomorrow make sure it's correct.

I checked the timing there is a mark that has been marked with tip x. Timed it to 18deg advance at idle.

Was going to check the piston TDC to make sure mark is correct but the fan cowl is too close to the crank, I can bearly get my fingers in, what's the correct size socket 1 1/2"?
1 1/4 :thumbright:
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

JohnS wrote:
1 1/4 :thumbright:
Cheers mate I'll try get a socket down onto it tomorrow and make sure timing mark is accurate.
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

Ok so I got a bit of time to spend on the car this morning. confirmed TDC a on the damper. Ran her until warm and set her for for 18 degrees initial timing but she seems to bring in way too much timing too fast. Even with no vacuum advance she'Bananarama! 36degrees by 1500rpm

I tried to leave on vacuum advance and bring in the final timing first but she's backfiring a fair bit.

I noticed shes hunting a fair bit too, bouncing between 580rpm and 670rpm which is reflected in the vacuum gauge and the timing marking jumping around a little.

Any advice, should I turn my attention to the carb vacuum lines etc and try get her idling evenly before going at timing? How much should the timing be able to advance on the distributor.
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Blue
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Post by Blue »

Sounds like you have a broken or missing advance spring, or someone has swapped in springs that are too light. If your advance is all in at 1500, it's highly likely you are already into the curve at idle, which could account for your fluctuating tickover speed.
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Pete
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Post by Pete »

At 1500 rpm all your timing is not in.

You have to set your full advance timing of 34 degrees at around 3000rpm and then pick the bones out of it. Disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the pipes when you do this.

Unless you have an adjustable distributor, then you will probably end up running less initial than you really want. On a Stock Dizzy you will probably end up at around 12 degrees or less; which is not really enough with modern fuels............

There are LOADS of threads on this board about setting ignition timing, try using the "Search" facility or research the Stickys.
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

Thanks for the responses. The full timing isn't in at 1500, there seems to be plenty more advance after that. I'll have a look again in a while at set it for 3000 and see what it brings it back to at idle. It felt like it had a large range of advance when I was looking at it.

I'm not sure is the distributor is adjustable or not.

Maybe it's my phone but the search seems to bring in a lot of unrelated results when I've tried to search topics. I haven't used the site much on the laptop.
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Steve
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Post by Steve »

The stuff Si put links on for are very good. They cover stuff that Dave posted and is the benchmark article that lots of us use. Its easy to follow and very user friendly :thumbright:
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

I've read saves articles.

Maybe I have this all wrong but I think the range of advance is too much, I was just out there again. Could do with a mate to help while hold idle while I'm at this.

I have retarded the timing to about 8 deg initial and set about revving her up and she went over 36 deg. I retarded her further until I got as far as 2000rpm at 36 degrees, there is more advice available but when I let off the throttle she dies as the initial is too low. I have to up the idle rpm to get her running, which I presume is bringing in mechanical and vacuum advance.
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

I've read saves articles.

Maybe I have this all wrong but I think the range of advance is too much, I was just out there again. Could do with a mate to help while hold idle while I'm at this.

I have retarded the timing to about 8 deg initial and set about revving her up and she went over 36 deg. I retarded her further until I got as far as 2000rpm at 36 degrees, there is more advice available but when I let off the throttle she dies as the initial is too low. I have to up the idle rpm to get her running, which I presume is bringing in mechanical and vacuum advance.

I even marked the damper as per another article to see if it was the light throwing it out

http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Mopar%20Timing.pdf
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Charger
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Post by Charger »

you need to limit the amount of total mechanical advance

the more you increase your initial advance, the more you need to limit

for 20deg initial and 34deg total, you’re looking for 14deg of mechanical advance

to do this you can use a J685K Limiter Kit … http://www.fbo-uk.com/fbo_ignition_systems.htm ... from Turnip (Jon) on here

or for an adjustable dizzy adjust with the 2 black allen screws like this …
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Si
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Dave999
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Post by Dave999 »

[Bugger i was too slow]


if you are checking the timing with the vaccum connected you will pulling in an extra 7 8 10 degrees via the vacuum as soon as the throttle plate passes the vaccum port. Not syaing you are but the symptoms you describe sounds like you are

plug it at the dizzy end of the pipe with a nice screw so it can't get in the way of measuring mechanical advance.

initial + mechanical + vaccum can result in 45+ degrees under ceratin circumstances (which is fine, those circumstances need that advance for emissions and ecconomy)

spin it to 3500 and set it to 34 BTDC

let it idle and measure what you got at idle

if its at 5 BTDC or something daft like that you need a recurve kit that takes out 8 or 10 degrees * from yoiur distributors mechanical advance so you can set it to 12-15 BTDC at idle and still not go over 34 at 3000 or so.

then connect up your vaccum advance and don't worry about what it is doing at the mo.

as long as you have it connected to a port that enters the carb just above the throttle plates you will be fine.

* speak to turnip. if you have a mopar dizzy he can provide an FBO recurve kit
springs
a limiting plate
set of instructions

plate sits on top of the advcance plate and limits how far the Tabs in the advance weights are allowed to move outwards therefore limiting mechanical advance in the dizzy. plates come with a number of holes labelled on the diagram so you can choose how much you want to take out

use springs to adjasut how fast the advance comes in

use instructions for a nice bit of bedtime reading before starting :thumbright:

(helps to avoid firing the circlip that holds on the armature into a hedge like i did)

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Charger
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Post by Charger »

Si
1970 Charger 500
383 | 4bbl | 727 column | PAS | PAB | buckets/buddy - check out my photos HERE

If you don't want another same old brand-new car ... you could be DODGE MATERIAL

1970 Dodge Charger Registry - https://www.1970chargerregistry.com/
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Powermyster
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Post by Powermyster »

Thanks guys I'm not sure what dizzy is on it, haven't noticed any markings. I'll have a look around it, is there any common places for markings.

I've been messing with it that much that I can't remember if I had the vacuum disconnected. I thought I did, but it's possible I left it on as it's been on and off this morning.

I was thinking if the mechanical was advancing so far ahead of initial that I could try the initial off manifold vacuum. Ill scrap that for now and make sure the vacuum is disconnected.

I'll have a look again later, I'm going out for some dinner now to clear my head
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Blue
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Post by Blue »

Disconnect and plug the vacuum line. Leave it that way until you figure out how much initial the engine wants and then limit the total advance to 34 degrees. Then you can reconnect the vacuum and see where you are going with that.
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Steve
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Post by Steve »

Im a real novice at this but have found that Daves way works well for me, Stick the tacho on and slowly advance the timing. You will hear a steady rise in rpm. When that rise shallows off, lock the dizzy down and take a reading. That might be 16deg btdc for example. Now readjust your rpm to stock setting at idle. Get a pal to rev her up to 2500 rpm then take a reading. You ideally want 34-36 deg all in at 2500. If its 46 then just use one of Jons plates to knock the 10 or 12 degs off (the plate has marked slots) and you should be there or thereabouts. If you rev beyond 2500 and its still rising then I guess heavier springs are going to help.

If total adv isnt all in soon enough, try a lighter spring or two and if in too soon, try heavier springs.

Im a simple soul and need simple ways to do stuff. This is the closest Ive come to finding a way I can get my head round it and keep it all straightforward

Good luck matey :thumbright:
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