Calling Dave 999 science and maths guru

[Gas for GOSH]

One for Dave to ponder here maybe......

The Brussel Times reports that a new German study exposes how electric vehicles will hardly decrease CO2 emissions in Europe over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles won't lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from highway traffic.

According to the study directed by Christoph Buchal of the University of Cologne, published by the Ifo Institute in Munich last week, electric vehicles have "significantly higher CO2 emissions than diesel cars." That is due to the significant amount of energy used in the mining and processing of lithium, cobalt, and manganese, which are critical raw materials for the production of electric car batteries.

A battery pack for a Tesla Model 3 pollutes the climate with 11 to 15 tonnes of CO2. Each battery pack has a lifespan of approximately ten years and total mileage of 94,000, would mean 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer (116 to 156 grams of CO2 per mile), Buchal said. Add to this the CO2 emissions of the electricity from powerplants that power such vehicles, and the actual Tesla emissions could be between 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer (249 and 289 grams of CO2 per mile).

German researchers criticized the fact that EU legislation classifies electric cars as zero-emission cars; they call it a deception because electric cars, like the Model 3, with all the factors included, produce more emissions than diesel vehicles by Mercedes. They further wrote that the EU target of 59 grams of CO2 per kilometer by 2030 is "technically unrealistic."

The reality is, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in mining the raw materials for the production of electric vehicles, all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles’ batteries using dirty power plants.

For true emission reductions, researchers concluded the study by saying methane-powered gasoline engines or hydrogen motors could cut CO2 emissions by a third and possibly eliminate the need for diesel motors.

"Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well."

[Matt74]

Now that was a very interesting read.

[Mossy68]

I totally agree with this study. And I'll add the transportation of the raw materials. Usually by a large fossil fuel powered ship !!!!

[cadboy]

very good and honest research, like it

[Dom66]

I've been saying this for years. I don't have any stats to manipulate, but I'm involved enough in the mining industry to know how damaging the extraction of some of these materials are. They then have a (fairly) short lifecycle and have to be reprocessed somehow as even less pleasant substances than they were wen extracted. And you have the ongoing need to generate power to recharge them during that lifecycle.

Add to that that most modern sh**boxes seem to be getting more disposable due to the replacement costs of fancy light units, composite panels etc, when the most environmentally damaging part of any vehicles life is during its initial manufacture.

I wouldn't necessarily say electric cars are less green than petrol cars, but it could be close enough for it not to be worth all the fuss. (Breathable/particulate emissions in built up areas not withstanding).

Seems the best thing to do is keep what we have and stop buying new stuff.

Which is kind of what we're doing....

[Dave999]

the least polluting car you own from a CO2 point of view is yer old mopar..
it was designed to last 5 years its lasted 30-50 and so has paid back its carbon footprint in respect to manufacture
if it is 50 years old you kinda recycled it 10 times .....good for you you saved the planet from the burning of more coal and oil 9 times

CO2 isn't the main issue in respect to greenhouse gases...

1) Methane and Nitrous oxides increase atmosphere temperature much more, methane is 30 times worse than Co2... Nitrous oxide is a by product of fertilizer use. live stock farming produces most of the rest of the methane. if you cut down a rainforest to grow palm oil trees and not foord for your family you become dependent on other sources of food, most of which will involve cows pigs chickens and dairy. food has to be grown to feed/ produce the foods they provide and that involves fertilizer and the livestock produce a lot of waste so emissions of nitrous oxide and methane go up

we can't grow enough food if we don't use fertilizer


2) As the temperature rises the ice melts exposing tundra regions in the north to greater decay increasing methane releases into the atmosphere as it rots.
3) as the atmosphere heats up the sea temperature rises. In the bottom of the deep trenches of the oceans, are big chunks of frozen methane gas under the water. as the water temp rises an incalculable quantity of methane embedded in the rock and sand will be released into the atmosphere. to stop that happening we would have had to have started looking at global warming before we knew about global warming. It will take 50-100 years for the temperature at the bottom of the deep trenches in the seas to rise enough to start this process and then take about the same time for them to cool down again and stop it. we may have passed the tipping point on this front.

4) when the ice melts what will come with it? small pox diphtheria bubonic plague its all be locked up in there and its going to come out....

Climate protests..
1) some of them flew in to take part FFS... all of them had mobile phones.....plastic tents....
2) the disruption caused made pollution levels spike

idling cars cause more pollution than moving cars, hence cycle lanes taking up big sections of roads in london save the lives of those stupid enough to undertake a truck at the lights, but slowly help to kill all the rest of us, as the road is now narrower and the traffic moves slower. 1/2 an hour added to a trip in a truck van or bus along the embankment since the cycle super highway went live, and you betya that journey is at a snails pace, just off idle when the engine pollutes most .

much of the pollution is brake dust and rubber dust.. main cause? speed bumps and stop start traffic.
the bad stuff that gets embedded in your brain is caused by diesel particulate filters. no filter and the soot is thick heavy and stays close to the ground. Bananarama! to bits in the filter in the exhaust and it goes everywhere 100s of meters up into the air and doesn't get washed out by rain.....

if everyone drove a 1960s 2 stroke the pollution vs congestion equation is tuned on its head. no idling traffic, tiny polluting nasty little 2 stroke but such a small quantity and the motor is running at optimum temperature for a much shorter period of time. WINNING!

the best thing that happened in recent years was the volcano in iceland, it threw up so much muck into the high atmosphere it blocked out the sun by a few % and global warming slowed

hence if we clean up the pollution from industry we single handedly make global warming worse not better. all that particulate grot in the air stops the sun heating the surface of the earth. It is the re-radiated heat from the surface that heats the air and the oceans.

charge a man £12.50 to drive into a city.
allow the cost of parking to be astronomical
reduce the number of parking bays

result:- more cars spend longer idling away in congestion as they try to drive round and round looking for a parking space at reasonable cost...and they are absolutely determined to find one as they just paid £12.50 for the privilege of driving into town.

free parking everywhere for small capacity motorcycles with no congestion charge would surely help......!

fewer but more reliable timetable for the buses would help.

freedom to drive whatever small capacity, up to 25 MPH, machine you want would help, from age 16 upwards. pass maths and english and get a provisional licence... if you don't ....then you don't get yer licence


they be my thoughts on all the twaddle spoken about co2 and pollution...



i came back sorry

Ps most of the micro plastic in the sea comes from fishing nets not plastic bags, they stay looking like plastic bags for 30 odd years
PPS yes burning methane is better than letting it escape into the atmosphere LPG (methane or propane is good) Hyrdogren not so good it take a massive quantity of dirty energy to get the hydrogen, compress the hydrogen and of course make the storage systems for both gases.

PPPS I used to teach GCSE science , the kids i taught should be able to see the holes in what is discussed in the media every day, it pains me that we are fed less than GCSE level explanations and stupid none scientific rubbish in the papers and media, by people who are the "science" correspondent today but were the finance or arts correspondent yesterday. and Mr khan and the politicians lap it all up.

ULEZ actually increases the impact, nice clean air lets the sun blaze down on the ground. The ground re radiates heat overnight keeping atmosphere HOT.
Road space given over to cycle super highways kills more people "slowly" than it saves cyclists from their own lack of spatial awareness.
Diesels are not the problem. diesels with particulate filters produce less toxic pollution "great" but the stuff they do produce has a much higher impact on me and my family i can see smog and avoid it i can't see diesel pollution........ but i do travel twice as far on a tank of it...and diesel cars tend to last longer.... MMmmm

i feel depressed...time for a coffee and a non-polluting VAPE...but i'll have to stand with the smokers to do that...yes i have to stand next to the very thing that caused my addiction in the first place in order to manage my addiction.... but they don't make alcoholics stand in a bar to have a cup of tea...do they

look! you've set me off now



Dave

[mopar_mark]

I was going to say the same Dave

[Matt74]

I think Dave999 should be running the country!

[cadboy]

I think Dave999 should be running the country!

BIG YES to that one

honest person to run for leader

[Dave999]

Ah i get in rant mode occasionally,...sorry and i'll go back and fix the spelling punctuation and well all of it

it just annoys me that there are easy solutions to lots of this and we are distracted by people in power, not qualified to comment, into believing 1 thing when the real worry is elsewhere. If the media employed qualified people to write about these things they would be doing their job properly exposing the truth and trampling down the lies and Bananarama!....

they don't... a degree in media does not give you the necessary skills to interpret scientific papers to establish of they have been properly peer reviewed and the content therefore worthwhile..... very few people have that skill i certainly don't you ned to be part of that community or have very good relationships with the people doing the research

we see it time and time again measles epidemic is just round the corner, due to 1 stupid article 15 years ago about MMR jabs...look at the impact... totally avoidable brain damage and death across the western world. 1 silly badly researched article relayed for weeks across supposedly trusted media outlets


c02 is a problem BUT methane and nitrous oxide are both much worse...where is the focus on changing diet, why don't we have GM crops that can grow in poorer soil without the fertilizer and pesticides (media politicians and Europe killed that, none of them qualified to say what they did, frankenstein foods blaa blaa) where is the focus on aid for countries that have huge rainforest resource that they are cutting down to plant cash crops to feed our needs (food clothes coffee lithium manganese palm oil avocados) .
where is the guilt associated with buying any device with a lithium battery(says the man with 3 phones working in IT) ...how can the trade in that stuff be above board when you look at the political chaos in most of the countries that have it as a resource. someone is bribing someone somewhere and the population of that country suffers, they live in poverty chop down more rain forest to scratch a living growing cotton for primark so my kids can buy tracky bottoms for 7 quid a go.

it is all kinda wrong. i didn't used to care that much ignorance is bliss as they say. but you know, i have kids .... and i'm getting older and grumpier
but i am a hypocrite i like a steak i like my bacon sarnie and like my cars i like my tech i'll power wash my engine blocks in the drive vfent the air con if i over fill it and i will chop down a tree if its in the way...

what can ya do....

Dave