Hydraulic lifter damage

[TIB3300]

Anyone help here ?

I have just fitted new cam and lifters.

Ran the engine for about a minuet and this happened to 2 lifters

Two questions

* What would cause this ?

* What noise would it make ?

I do have my own ideas but would like some input please

DSCN4110.JPG (103.15 KiB) Viewed 1527 times

DSCN4113.JPG (119.84 KiB) Viewed 1527 times

DSCN4114.JPG (111.51 KiB) Viewed 1527 times

DSCN4115.JPG (73.52 KiB) Viewed 1527 times

[Pete]

Does the Head have Double Valve Springs?

If so, you should remove the Inner Springs Prior to Break in.

Did you use assembly Lube on the Lifter bodies?

Did you use "Torco" or a Similar High Pressure lubricant on the Cam Lobes, Lifter Bases, and Push Rod tips?

Did you use "Break in" oil?

Did you run the engine at around 2500 rpm for 20 minutes as part of the Break in process?

It looks like the Lifters are not spinning in the Lifter Bores.

My view is that the cam and lifters are now scrap.

They only have case hardening, and once you have gone though that, the wear will be quick and very aggressive.
Grinding paste through the engine....

Sorry its not better news.

[TIB3300]

Does the Head have Double Valve Springs?

If so, you should remove the Inner Springs Prior to Break in. I used the original ones , just to break in the cam

Did you use assembly Lube on the Lifter bodies? Ahh! no' I have always used STP thick oil on builds.

Did you use "Torco" or a Similar High Pressure lubricant on the Cam Lobes, Lifter Bases, and Push Rod tips? No

Did you use "Break in" oil? Yes

Did you run the engine at around 2500 rpm for 20 minutes as part of the Break in process? Yes

It looks like the Lifters are not spinning in the Lifter Bores. One has two marks , in different directions

My view is that the cam and lifters are now scrap. The cam doesn't look worn, it had a black coating in it, which is hardly removed , as said only ran for about a minute

They only have case hardening, and once you have gone though that, the wear will be quick and very aggressive.
Grinding paste through the engine....

Sorry its not better news. Thanks for the input

What noise do you think the lifter would make, with this damage ?

All good at start, then a god almighty screech/ howel a bit light a dry clutch release bearing when you take you foot off the pedal

[TIB3300]

This ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torco-MPZ-En ... gKd6vD_BwE

[Pete]

This ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Torco-MPZ-En ... gKd6vD_BwE

Yes.
Lifesaver.

[Pete]

Hydraulic Lifters should not make a noise at all - that is their purpose (that and the lack of need for manual adjustment).

[Pete]

The Lifters should have Convex bases, this and a tapered grind on the Cam Lobe makes the lifter spin; which prevents it from wearing.

Any marks indicate the Lifter is not spinning.

[TIB3300]

I think the lude used was my problem

[Dave999]

remember the zddp additive in the oil. Just the right amount too much messes with the oils lubricity. your cam and lifters will be fine but the bearings won't.

get it started as fast as possible, prime oil pump, set timing to 10 BTDC, wind in throttle stop to give 2000-3000, hook up timing light, check and clean plugs.

fill inlet with damp start/ether,
down the carb or pump it in through the PCV/ brake Booster connector

start with the radiator cap off. when water starts moving, bubbles will move through and the level will fall. top it off and when they stop burping through, fit the cap.
don't add water to a volcanic engine, but on the way through warming up nothing to stop you topping off radiator

back off throttle if its going too fast
back off timing or stop if it gets too hot
stop if it gets the the point where the headers glow red....too hot...... it will ruin something
start it again when cool. same set up fill inlet with ether so that it fires in seconds

do this job outside away from flammable stuff with easy access to hose and preferably when there is someone to go for help....

need to check if lifters are free to spin in bores pushrods should also spin.

i'd be inclined to use cheap plugs and sling em after break in

Dave

[TIB3300]

remember the zddp additive in the oil. Just the right amount too much messes with the oils lubricity. your cam and lifters will be fine but the bearings won't.

get it started as fast as possible, prime oil pump, set timing to 10 BTDC, wind in throttle stop to give 2000-3000, hook up timing light, check and clean plugs.

fill inlet with damp start/ether,
down the carb or pump it in through the PCV/ brake Booster connector

start with the radiator cap off. when water starts moving, bubbles will move through and the level will fall. top it off and when they stop burping through, fit the cap.
don't add water to a volcanic engine, but on the way through warming up nothing to stop you topping off radiator

back off throttle if its going too fast
back off timing or stop if it gets too hot
stop if it gets the the point where the headers glow red....too hot...... it will ruin something
start it again when cool. same set up fill inlet with ether so that it fires in seconds

do this job outside away from flammable stuff with easy access to hose and preferably when there is someone to go for help....

need to check if lifters are free to spin in bores pushrods should also spin.

i'd be inclined to use cheap plugs and sling em after break in

Dave

[Dave999]

yeah they can

if you have nice looking ceramic coated headers NEVER use them to break in a motor
the ceramic will be in a pile on the floor or at the very least burnt and disgusting and cracking
even worse with paint

use some rusty old clangers
or the old cast iron orginals, mind they can crack.....


this was a dyno pull rather than break in. potentially stylised for advertising purposes Not mine...
excessive....! sold a few aussie hemis though...



Dave

[TIB3300]

yeah they can
if you have nice looking ceramic coated headers NEVER use them to break in a motor
the ceramic will be in a pile on the floor or at the very least burnt and disgusting and cracking
even worse with paint
use some rusty old clangers
or the old cast iron orginals, mind they can crack.....
this was a dyno pull rather than break in. potentially stylised for advertising purposes Not mine... excessive....! sold a few aussie hemis though...


Dave

FNEK Dave stop now. I dont even want to try it now

My paint work is only 50mm away from the headers

[mopar_mark]

use some rusty old clangers
or the old cast iron orginals, mind they can crack.....

Dave

Last thing I’d be using is rusty ol headers, it’s amazing how much can be scavenged back up the exhaust into the motor ...

[Dave999]

fair point

but not ones you just had coated at considerable expense for a process that gets them very hot with little or no air flow through the grill to keep them cool

unless of course that coating is kinda space shuttle nose cone good


Dave

[Dave999]

paintwork close: if its getting too hot you can stop.... its not ideal but as long as you start it again smartly no damage done...easier to do damp start method with stone cold inlet.

modern petrol burns hotter
none standard cam lifters and springs
modern oil is great for FI injected modern engines its not great for 1960s engines hence the zddp additive

just makes it a bit more fraught but lifters and push rods must be free to turn throughout their range of travel. i presume but don't know, that the lifter does the most turning as it goes over the nose of the lobe... OR when its sitting on the base circle, back of lobe with little or no pressure on it. it will be one or the other. so if you had a clearance problem with push rods only at max lift which stops the pushrod form turning it might stop the lifter turning

but as i say i don't know at which point most turn occurs, i presume the action of running on the cam produces some, all of the time

but when you see it its a pulsing movement its not smooth so there is a maximum and minimum turn action. involved in a full cycle up and down


this video
4 minutes 40



keep in mind this chap swears like a trouper and doesn't even realise he doing it

Dave