Lap belts legal?

[Mark B]

Hi All,

was hoping for your opinion please. I have the original lap belts fitted in my car and someone said they're not legal as all cars in the UK (including imported cars) post 1968 must have seat belts with 3 point anchorage. Is this true or is there an exemption for imported cars. Also I've had a look and can't find the 3rd anchorage point in the Challenger either.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[MattH]

I would need to do alot of checking on the laws, they are complex and flit between the Road Traffic Act and Con & Use regulations.
Most Police officers wouldn't know the difference unless they had to investigate a serious collision and lap belts were involved.
I would guess that factory fit is fine in most cases.

In my Challenger the third anchor point is in the roof and there was a second belt above the door window each side, and I had two sets of buckles so you could have lap only or lap and shoulder, (or - but you wouldn't - shoulder only)
I ditched all this and put 3 point inertia reels in from a SSanyong Musso. MX5 would possibly do, or get a new inertia set. It means you see the belt hanging, so pillarless look gone, but much nicer to drive and safer than static belts which are awful.

[morgan]

Same here.
My Charger had factory fit lap and shoulder - but some cars were lap only. I think 'factory fit' applies.
That said, I too replaced then with inertia reel. As Matt says, pillarless look slightly interrupted but nobody but us geeks would know anyway. So unless you are hellbent on factory-at-all-costs I'd just swap 'em. The mounting bolts are all there under the carpet/liner I believe.

[Pete]

My 'Cuda has two belts per side from the factory - one Lap inertia belt and one Static belt from the Roof where the "B" Pillar would be.

You should be able to feel the area through the Roof lining and locate the captive bolt for this belt if not fitted.
They are a universal standard thread size - UK, US, etc.

On the 'Cuda the belt stores under purpose made clips so they are out of site when not used.
However, the belt angle is really bad and cuts across my wife's throat so not great.

I have fitted inertia's to "B" Bodies in the past but not an "E" Body.

I think the process is the same and the trick is finding or making the best anchor points to ensure the inertia belt runs smoothly.

You cannot do a lot about the roof anchor point unless you are happy to strip out the Roof Lining and weld in and brace a suitable fitting, so lots of work and costs there.....

[Mark B]

Thanks for your responses. Some good information.

I would need to do alot of checking on the laws, they are complex and flit between the Road Traffic Act and Con & Use regulations.

I've look up information on the gov website but there doesn't seem to be much information about this. I also spoke to the DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency) and they don't seem to know either.

On a separate note, I understand 3-point belts weren't mandated in the States until 1991, so there must be quite a few US cars imported to the UK with lap belts.

In my Challenger the third anchor point is in the roof and there was a second belt above the door window each side

You should be able to feel the area through the Roof lining and locate the captive bolt for this belt if not fitted.

I've tried to locate the third anchor point under the roof lining but there's nothing there. My car was an early Challenger released in Oct 1969, maybe they didn't put the 3rd anchor point until later?

[cadboy]

My 1968 Barracuda has the factory fitted seat belts too, a lap belt and one from the top for shoulder.

I have used the lap belt a few times but never the top one and when my car used to go for MOT, I don't remember the inspector checking it at all as when I got the car back all the belts were untouched and still in place.

So may be not need to be tested for 68 cars.

[Mark B]

So the person that said lap belts weren't legal post 1968 has admitted he might have his facts wrong.

The regulation in 1968 said all new cars from 1 April 1968 need 3 point anchorage. It didn't include imported cars.

The regulation mentioned in 1981, saying 3 point belts should be used after 1st April 1981.

47b This regulation applies which is first used on or after 1st April 1981 shall be provided with three-point F2... belts for the driver's seat and for the specified passenger's seat

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ulation/47

I have used the lap belt a few times but never the top one and when my car used to go for MOT, I don't remember the inspector checking it at all as when I got the car back all the belts were untouched and still in place.

I don't think the MOT inspectors look at them much as mine has passed it's MOT 5 times with no advisories.

[Stu]

As a bit of an aside to this, are race harnesses road legal?

I’m replacing the lap belts in my Challenger as I’ve fallen out of love with the idea of being cut in half whilst simultaneously losing all my teeth if anything happens. I am installing harnesses for the track, but was just assuming they would be ok on the road.

Now I’ve starting asking Dr Google, it seems unclear.

[Dom66]

As a bit of an aside to this, are race harnesses road legal?

I’m replacing the lap belts in my Challenger as I’ve fallen out of love with the idea of being cut in half whilst simultaneously losing all my teeth if anything happens. I am installing harnesses for the track, but was just assuming they would be ok on the road.

Now I’ve starting asking Dr Google, it seems unclear.

I had them in my Cobra, never had any issues at MOT time...

[Stu]

Good to know, cheers.

Seems like a bit of a missing piece of information when it comes to legality.

[Dave999]

differences in the action of each belt type based on the situation they will be used in

seat belts stretch to slow you down slower than the car stops. helps protect internal organs from mushing themselves on your rib cage, for situations where you are likely to encounter a car going the other way at the same speed as you

race belts are all about making you part of the machine, they don't stretch in the same way... if the belt and anchor points hold up you will most definitely stay in the seat, upside down or the right way up, in the car, until it stops, and for a log time after if the wheel has busted your fingers and you can't unlock them. They are normally used where there is supposed to be someone to help get you out, and of course used in a situation where you are all supposed to be going the same way. you may well hit an inanimate object at full speed but there are fewer in your way... and its unlikely to be an object accelerating towards you at the same rate as you are towards it... You will stop at the same rate the car stops, and that doesn't happen with a standard belt due to their controlled stretch.

i don't know if the belts used by rally drivers differ, its the only sport where racing takes place on a road and big trees and walls loom large at every turn.

MOT wise as far as i know you need a belt and it must not be frayed and it must lock and it must not be used to hold you and the seat in place i.e seat must lock on its rails.... Never had a MOT inspector check the labels on the belt to see what standards they comply with.
they want a belt that works as a restraint, is not damaged, functions as intended by the manufacturer ...if appropriate for the age of the car



Dave

[Stu]

You’re spot on to my thinking, Dave. I was assuming that the fact inertia reel “stretchy” belts are all that is used in modern road cars was for that reason, so may be all that is, strictly speaking, legal.

I’m very sure they will be safer than the old lap belts!

[Dave999]

lap belt safer than no belt but, plenty of things safer than a lap belt

id rather be in 1 piece rather than 2 regardless of the other outcomes...

on the other hand, if they are going to put me in my best suit in a wooden box dressing individual parts may well be easier......

I had not thought of that.....

wonder if they have some kind of lifting tackle?

sorry inappropriate and off on the wrong track totally





Dave

[Dom66]

That's the problem with race stuff in a street car.

Whenever I see a car with a full cage in it, I think unless you are wearing a full harness and a helmet, you'll probably brain yourself in the event of an accident...

But if the safe option is driving a Tesla, I guess we crash and die like a real men