Demon...Buy one get one free.
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Anonymous
Thanks for posting the results of the kickback test Adam
Always ignition first, by taking the static timing to the max the starter can actually handle the idle is clean, crisp with no stink from the tailpipes.
No need to open the idle eze, BG states this is just for bad combinations and Adams motor isn't a bad combo, if the carb hadn't got the idle eze there would be no need to drill throttle blades on this motor either.
As Dave says the higher the @050 figure the higher the initial
The distributor is going to need quite a lot of mechanical timing taking out to reach 20/34@3100
The can will be used to pull in a little more timing at idle only, this will clean the idle up even more.
As for the can being used on ported while on light load to increase MPG, first, how many people with a performance Mopar really give a monkeys about an extra mile or 2, second, when you simulate driving on a distributor machine with on/off vac at the can, revs up/down whatever, the can is basically unreliable especially when set to pull a fair amount, this plays havoc with the baseplate, airgap and timing, just not worth the trouble.
Yes some stock motors would benifit from the can while on light load, perf motors no way (IMO).
Dave...... way to close to xmas to start a full blown argument on timing
we've been here before so lets just say we have differing opinions
Always ignition first, by taking the static timing to the max the starter can actually handle the idle is clean, crisp with no stink from the tailpipes.
No need to open the idle eze, BG states this is just for bad combinations and Adams motor isn't a bad combo, if the carb hadn't got the idle eze there would be no need to drill throttle blades on this motor either.
As Dave says the higher the @050 figure the higher the initial
The distributor is going to need quite a lot of mechanical timing taking out to reach 20/34@3100
The can will be used to pull in a little more timing at idle only, this will clean the idle up even more.
As for the can being used on ported while on light load to increase MPG, first, how many people with a performance Mopar really give a monkeys about an extra mile or 2, second, when you simulate driving on a distributor machine with on/off vac at the can, revs up/down whatever, the can is basically unreliable especially when set to pull a fair amount, this plays havoc with the baseplate, airgap and timing, just not worth the trouble.
Yes some stock motors would benifit from the can while on light load, perf motors no way (IMO).
Dave...... way to close to xmas to start a full blown argument on timing
we've been here before so lets just say we have differing opinions-
Dave-R
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That sounds to me as if you have other issues. A factory "hot" engine would be timed at about 10* BTDC without any of those problems. Along with those vibration problems you have it makes me wonder....Adam68 wrote:Can't set the initial @ 14*,which is where it wants to be to give me 35* @ 3000 revs,cos it spits out raw fuel from the rear end & runs backwards when you turn it off.
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Dave-R
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Yes. Everyone knows we have different opinions on this Neil. I am just adding my view on this. Not arguing at all.Wil wrote:Dave...... way to close to xmas to start a full blown argument on timing
Like I said I could possibly end up with an initial timing near your spec. Just to see how far I can get the throttle blades closed. But in reality probably only a bit more than the 14 used last time I would imagine. Maybe 16 at most. All I need is a good idle and off-idle transition. Which I already have. By the rpm my converter hooks up my timing is way up there anyway. So why do I need a higher timing at idle when it works very well where it is?
I do think throttle blade position at idle is VERY important. This is why Holley drill their OWN holes in the throttle blades. Many factory applications came with holes in the blades. If it is good enough for Holley why is it not good enough for you?
I just think the carb issue should be addressed before working out the final timing setting because increasing the initial timing to get around a poorly tuned carb on a car that needs to drive on the street is not the way to go in my opinion.
Race cars can get away with this though because they spend little time doing real driving or even idling.
My 540hp engine idles and starts easily as soon as you turn the key. Just the normal lumpy sound from the big cam but otherwise quite smooth and a good steady idle speed and vacuum reading. No smelly exhaust or fouled plugs. Last time I used it I dialed in 14 degrees initial but it used to idle the same at 12.5*.
If you follow Dons theory it should not be running right at all without more timing.
So no arguments. All I ask is for you to think why that is without dismissing what I say out of hand.
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
Dave,it only needs a tweak here & there to get it sorted & it will get sorted.I think the demons need more initial than the holleys or edelbrookes,but when there set up right,there a better carb.
Not forgetting I'm running a wilder motor than the stocker ever was.
Problem is,I want a street car & a strip,but I know I have to make some sacrifices somewhere ie lumpy idle.
Not forgetting I'm running a wilder motor than the stocker ever was.
Problem is,I want a street car & a strip,but I know I have to make some sacrifices somewhere ie lumpy idle.
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Dec 01, 06 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Adam you don't have a bad combo
Dave what would be your recommendation on Adams motor??
Adam has already noted how a big increase in initial timing has cleaned the idle up, bearing in mind this is with his Holley, as far as I know, as his Demon is waiting on gaskets from me.
At around 11* initial Adams motor stinks of exhaust gas/unburnt fuel, runs on, and overheats at idle, at 20 this is all gone, now I know Adam isn't stupid and can get damn close to a baseline idle setting on a carb so it's not as if the idle screws are half a yard out, this is down to timing
I'm sure Adam would follow your recommendations while he's waiting for gaskets and his distributor recurve, just to prove a point
You also stated earlier in this thread that initial figures can change idle rpm which we all know,this is down to efficiecy of the burn, so where's the point of dialling in the carb before the ignition, the rpm changes because the max rate of expansion needs to be around 12/15*atdc, initial timing changes get this closer or further away from this ideal hence the idle rpm change, the whole timing curve on a Mopar needs to be just so to get to this 12/15 atdc through the entire rev range and there is a whole pile of things that change the advance figure needed to get to this
Whilst you say i'm not willing to see another side to this and dismiss what you say (not) you also do the same
Dave what would be your recommendation on Adams motor??
Adam has already noted how a big increase in initial timing has cleaned the idle up, bearing in mind this is with his Holley, as far as I know, as his Demon is waiting on gaskets from me.
At around 11* initial Adams motor stinks of exhaust gas/unburnt fuel, runs on, and overheats at idle, at 20 this is all gone, now I know Adam isn't stupid and can get damn close to a baseline idle setting on a carb so it's not as if the idle screws are half a yard out, this is down to timing
I'm sure Adam would follow your recommendations while he's waiting for gaskets and his distributor recurve, just to prove a point
You also stated earlier in this thread that initial figures can change idle rpm which we all know,this is down to efficiecy of the burn, so where's the point of dialling in the carb before the ignition, the rpm changes because the max rate of expansion needs to be around 12/15*atdc, initial timing changes get this closer or further away from this ideal hence the idle rpm change, the whole timing curve on a Mopar needs to be just so to get to this 12/15 atdc through the entire rev range and there is a whole pile of things that change the advance figure needed to get to this
Whilst you say i'm not willing to see another side to this and dismiss what you say (not) you also do the same
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Dec 01, 06 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave-R
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- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 11:23 pm
- Location: Dave Robson lives in Geordieland
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I think Adam is right in that it must be a Demon thing. I know I have tried messing with Demons before and found them very difficult to work right. Holleys and edelbrocks are OK. But there is something about those Demons that makes them live up to their name. I really do not see the advantage of a Demon. Can someone tell me what it is?
I can think of one.
They look fancy.
Nope. I can't think of any more advantages.
Adam. If my car is not street/strip what the hell do you think is? I have been tuning American V8 carbs for a lot longer than Neil. No offence Neil but it's true.
Adam you have proved time and time again you know nothing about these cars or even how they work. I have supplied you with lots of answers to your child like questions in the last few months despite your previous insults toward me. You have no respect and you deserve non in return. There is a word for people like you and when I see you I will tell you what that is.
I can think of one.
They look fancy.
Nope. I can't think of any more advantages.
Adam. If my car is not street/strip what the hell do you think is? I have been tuning American V8 carbs for a lot longer than Neil. No offence Neil but it's true.
Adam you have proved time and time again you know nothing about these cars or even how they work. I have supplied you with lots of answers to your child like questions in the last few months despite your previous insults toward me. You have no respect and you deserve non in return. There is a word for people like you and when I see you I will tell you what that is.
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Anonymous
Dave,I'm a plumbing & heating engineer,not a mechanic & never said I was,but I built the car from nothing with no problems.
This is a hobby & had no trouble with the car apart from the engine which needs a few things ironing out having just got it back.
Car took me nearly a year to do,unlike you dragging ya heels most of the time.
I've always held you in high regard concerning your knowledge in mopars,ask any member that knows me?
Working on the car is theraputic,does'nt matter if mistakes are made,just wish the same applied to the day job.Youve obviously noticed I'm not shy in posting questions,as this is the way EVERYONE broadens there knowledge,even you. Can't agree with the childish bit though,maybe think before you post.
The only problems on this forum seem to revolve around you,that should tell you something surely.
Hope this does'nt get modded.
Dave,you seen that advert with the bear.
Looking forward to meeting you.
This is a hobby & had no trouble with the car apart from the engine which needs a few things ironing out having just got it back.
Car took me nearly a year to do,unlike you dragging ya heels most of the time.
I've always held you in high regard concerning your knowledge in mopars,ask any member that knows me?
Working on the car is theraputic,does'nt matter if mistakes are made,just wish the same applied to the day job.Youve obviously noticed I'm not shy in posting questions,as this is the way EVERYONE broadens there knowledge,even you. Can't agree with the childish bit though,maybe think before you post.
The only problems on this forum seem to revolve around you,that should tell you something surely.
Hope this does'nt get modded.
Dave,you seen that advert with the bear.
Looking forward to meeting you.