N2O Advice please... Good and Bad!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon May 16, 11 1:15 pm

Hi Paul, I checked on the B&M SFI flex plate and it is for an externally balanced 440, sorry.

Pete

db · Post by db » Mon May 16, 11 10:29 pm

Thanks Pete. No hurry, one'll turn up sooner or later. The important thing is that we've identified a weak link

Les Szabo · Post by **Les Szabo** » Tue May 17, 11 1:38 pm

far be it of me to suggest you don't try your own kit, however I would stress thats its not something you want to experiment with too much like maybe carb settings/jetting.

From what I gather from your posts, a simple Cheater plate kit if they are so called nowadays, tuneable from 125hp to 250. 125 is nice and mild, 175 is the one wakes you up, and 250 is the one, but as I said before you MUST have a good volume of fuel at 6psi, seperate line for just that.
I went from 12.4 on motor with the 340 to 11.01 with 250hp, no probs at all. Again, as always, it boils down to what you want from the car, street or track.

db · Post by db » Tue May 17, 11 5:08 pm

Thanks Les but the more i read up on nitrous systems, the more flaws i see with the likes of NOS kits and the more annoyed i get with this stranglehold they have!
It really ain't that hard to build a mild 100-150 shot system using ordinary industrial parts (made to the same or higher spec than 'proper' nitrous bits) and to do it safely and with equal or greater effect than known-brand kits.
It's no different to any other engine mods- you do it methodically, measure and monitor everything. Start easy and build up to a sensible maximum that won't bust props, pistons, diffs, etc.
There's only 2 thinks that can go wrong with nitrous- HEAT and PRESSURE.
Keep an eye on them and you're laughing...

geddit?

Les Szabo · Post by **Les Szabo** » Tue May 17, 11 8:35 pm

ok mate, I geddit

..don't really understand why your getting annoyed with it all though, so what if they have a stranglehold, do they?...they've put a lot of work into making sure their kits are safe, metered jets which work, I and a lot of other people have used them and they are pucker, so why not just buy a kit and your done and move on to whatever else you gotta do/ sort out for your car instead of creating another possible headache for yourself. Thats the way I look at it anyway, but hey, good luck with it all.

db · Post by db » Tue May 17, 11 9:05 pm

Sorry mate, just havin a little rant there

I'm feeling a bit like i'm swimming against the tide of anti-d.i.y.ers.
I just fancy having a go for a bit o' fun and to test my abilities.

I do appreciate ALL comments good and bad, after all thats what i asked for

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue May 17, 11 9:15 pm

I guess there are somethings you can DIY, and some things are best left to the guys who have taken the R&D cost hit and have managed to avoid/absorb litigation with a product that is integrated and has a proven track record...............

Les Szabo · Post by **Les Szabo** » Tue May 17, 11 9:31 pm

Pete wrote:I guess there are somethings you can DIY, and some things are best left to the guys who have taken the R&D cost hit and have managed to avoid/absorb litigation with a product that is integrated and has a proven track record...............

PUT TO PERFECTION!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue May 17, 11 9:35 pm

Thanks, Les, I do have that knack from time to time

The rest of the time I talk Bananarama!

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Wed May 18, 11 6:51 am

Interesting idea to DIY and i'm right up there with doing stuff on the cheap but to be honest if your in no rush you can pick up all the bits a bit at a time cheap enough on Euro Drag/ ebay / Loot / racing Junk etc etc,

Jon Connolly · Post by **Jon Connolly** » Wed May 18, 11 7:23 am

Honestly DB ... forget making components ; buy new or used and put your diy efforts into the tuning and installation ( there`s plenty to do and Holley aren`t going to make $1 million out of your sale )

Here`s mine for reference ... not the way everyone does it, but I can understand it.

1 x petrol line tee`d off to 2 petrol pressure regulators ( no2 plate side has shut off cock for non nitrous runs ). Pressure regulators set at 7 psi carb and 6.8 psi plate using calibrated guage.

Fuel pressure safety switch set at 3 psi ... if under 3 psi in petrol plate line solenoids won`t open

Push button switch on wheel ... if car launches ok I fire it, if not happy I don`t ( most people use a wide open throttle switch )

If car hooks and I have more than 3 psi petrol pressure window switch opens at 3000 rpm ( adjustable via a chip ) putting the timing onto the retard module and drops the timing for the duration of the nitrous run ( timing adjustable using chips 1 degree to 10 degree )

Once upper limit of window switch is reached ( 6500 rpm for me ) then nitrous shuts and timing reverts to standard setting on the main MSD controller.

Switch off bottle immediately and purge line via a third solenoid and piece of 3/16 copper fridge pipe so that by the time you are back at pits all nitrous is out of lines

Tuning is then a case of reading plugs / gapping plugs / fuel pressures / nos jetting / timing changes etc

PLEASE NOTE ALL OF THE ABOVE IS ONLY MY OPINION BUT WORKS FOR ME .... OTHER PEOPLE MAY DO IT DIFFERENTLY AND " INTERNET EXPERTS " WILL HAVE LOTS OF OPINIONS !!

I`ve posted a picture of the window switch / msd retard module / msd main module together with a nos line picture so you can see what`s what

Hope it helps ?????

db · Post by db » Wed May 18, 11 8:28 am

Nice one Jon- thats exactly the info i'm after.
I'm not put off diy by scare stories cos frankly, nitrous, petrol, whatever doesn't blow up by itself. It blows up cos someone made a mistake.
If someone ~(like yer good self) shows me a better way, then i'll accept it.

I'll have a good read of your post today, there's a couple of things i don't get at the mo, so i may have some questions for you later

Thanks for taking the trouble to post the pics.

Pete- sounds like work talk!!
Guy- luckily i'm in no hurry. If summat turns up at the right price i'll grab it. Hasn't happened yet tho...

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Wed May 18, 11 11:02 am

well DIY is a good thing in my book
thats how all the first products of all the suppliers we use came about.
take what you made and make it for everyone else....once you have proved it works

you can do stuff on the cheap because ya skint
you can do stuff becasue nothing out there does what you need
or you can do stuff for the challenge, which if it ends up cheaper, and it often does.....Great!

the joy of producing something that does the job safely and efficiently, with a deep understanding of what you have as an end product, knowing its limits, and choosing its features.... finding out and doing...... can't be beat

isn't that why we are here........

i like this kinda thing
its an attitude i prescribe to

many ways to skin a cat.....

and there is a potential here for some smashing and informative posts
and a bit of adventure.

but obvioulsy loads of potential for good sage advice as well.

this thread is quite long

long time since anything technical took off like this....

its all good

Dave

Les Szabo · Post by **Les Szabo** » Wed May 18, 11 11:39 am

Jon Connolly wrote:Honestly DB ... forget making components ; buy new or used and put your diy efforts into the tuning and installation ( there`s plenty to do and Holley aren`t going to make $1 million out of your sale )

Here`s mine for reference ... not the way everyone does it, but I can understand it.

1 x petrol line tee`d off to 2 petrol pressure regulators ( no2 plate side has shut off cock for non nitrous runs ). Pressure regulators set at 7 psi carb and 6.8 psi plate using calibrated guage.

Fuel pressure safety switch set at 3 psi ... if under 3 psi in petrol plate line solenoids won`t open

Push button switch on wheel ... if car launches ok I fire it, if not happy I don`t ( most people use a wide open throttle switch )

If car hooks and I have more than 3 psi petrol pressure window switch opens at 3000 rpm ( adjustable via a chip ) putting the timing onto the retard module and drops the timing for the duration of the nitrous run ( timing adjustable using chips 1 degree to 10 degree )

Once upper limit of window switch is reached ( 6500 rpm for me ) then nitrous shuts and timing reverts to standard setting on the main MSD controller.

Switch off bottle immediately and purge line via a third solenoid and piece of 3/16 copper fridge pipe so that by the time you are back at pits all nitrous is out of lines

Tuning is then a case of reading plugs / gapping plugs / fuel pressures / nos jetting / timing changes etc

PLEASE NOTE ALL OF THE ABOVE IS ONLY MY OPINION BUT WORKS FOR ME .... OTHER PEOPLE MAY DO IT DIFFERENTLY AND " INTERNET EXPERTS " WILL HAVE LOTS OF OPINIONS !!

I`ve posted a picture of the window switch / msd retard module / msd main module together with a nos line picture so you can see what`s what

Hope it helps ?????

That is good, safe and todays norm I guess with all the controllers available, but I would say not all necessary......now here's my set up in 1989/1990 as the way it was...I'll use the '69 as the example....from memory

Cheater Big Shot plate system. Carb as high as I could get it, 2 Holley race pumps, 2 x 1/2" fuel lines, one for carb and other for nitrous petrol, regulators at 6psi to start with, dropped it to 4psi for max gain if required, once all settled down.

MSD 6A as is, timing set to 38 total, 10.5:1 stock pistons/bottom end with just Milodon external oil system. Direct Arming switch, on/off, switch on throttle for max hit on launch

System ran perfect, never had a prob, no tipped plugs, 125hp and 175hp, the more N20 the better the hit on the tyres. Never tried 250 as didn't have enough revs left on the motor, was pushing it with 175hp!!

So, thats 20yrs ago, a lot depends on the car and tyres and all that, and I guess if you had bigger slicks Jon you would change a few things, and of course compression ratio and all the other things like fuel quality will change settings.

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Wed May 18, 11 3:24 pm

Here you go

http://www.moparuk.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight=