N2O Advice please... Good and Bad!

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Fri May 20, 11 6:46 am

Another system for sale on Eurodragster in Reading £195.00

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Fri May 20, 11 11:59 am

Knightcharger wrote:[Dave

It is a bit frustrating when trying to pass on your experience about a subject as diverse as this then to be accused of cudgoulding (how do you spell that?).
I am the first person to support anybody who is up to try an alternative and be different, but this is such a diverse subject and there are so many different ways to achieve the same goal.
When building my system and checking [/quote]

I wasn't focusing on your post or accusing you specifically.....

it was mearly a comment around the slip towards
don't bother, just buy a kit type comments which i felt would stifle what was a really enthusiastic start to a little project to do something a bit different. wasn't ment to frustrate or annoy
an ill judged snipe

and i know all comments were very well meant as nobody here wants to see anyone injured, be injured by a time bomb in the next bay of the Pits or pour good money into an idea that sounds plausible but....could be a bit iffy or cause a new built engine to be ruined

it obvious that everyone has differeing views, the guys on yellow bullet obvioulsy do in regards to how to regulate fuel pressure for example.

thats why i was careful in what i said and kept to comment on the comments and ideas, rather than anything else

1) i know nout about Nitrous so i can't comment on what works and what doesn't proof is there that systems are all different and they all work to the satisfatcion of the owners

2)but i can comment if i think somone is peddling snake oil or if there is a modicum of sense in what they say, even if its all tangled up in other slightly dubious claims...

i don't think the basic ideas behind what WON and the chap it ntrous info say is snake oil.

i think mad looking diffuser type jet thingys and insisting that your solenoids be called pulsoids and are different is a bit daft
but i'm also interested in whether the supposed issues with all the others are true.

can't Trust the wizzard on that front as his buiness is dependent on it
but the other fella has no vested interest in that company. in fact he is probably doing them a dis service yet he chats out the same line

i wouldn't be so arrogrant to have a go or dispute anything to do with the installed and working kit you guys have put on your cars,I play with my little street car i go to the track for the beer and chat, i wouldn't have a leg to stand on, it would be daft on my part and even more frustrating for you...

we'd probably all end up in a row and i'd be seriously out of pocket for beers at the NATS

Dave

db · Post by db » Fri May 20, 11 12:04 pm

Thanks Guy, i'd spotted that one. It's missing an injector but there's another ad selling an injector plate for £30.
If it was nearer and or cheaper i might have gone for it

I didn't realise posts were getting deleted off here- i thought some of the thread lacked continuity

All i'm after here is help to achieve my little ambition of building a simple nitrous system of no more than 150hp for under £200.
Some of you don't believe it's possible, thats fine.
Some of you believe it's possible but stupid, not a problem- it won't be the first stupid thing i've done against all advice to the contrary.
Some of you have spent ££££ on your cars with many failures and successes.
Some of you think i'm a fool to even try.

Well here's how my mind works, i can't help it i'm just built this way (blame my parents if you like...)
I'm an eternal optimist and bloody-mindedly defiant.
The more people tell me i can't do something, the more i want to do it.
The more opinionated they are, the more i want to prove them wrong.

Some of you who have kindly given advice and help on this thread have a lot of (expensive) experience in this subject, some have a deep understanding of mechanics/ physics/ chemistry. ALL of us disagree on AT LEAST ONE aspect of what i'm trying to achieve.
That proves to me that (as with most methods of tuning) there is NO absolute here. There's no right or wrong way, there's just your way, my way, his way, her way, etc...

I AM listening to ALL the advice given here, hopefully most of it is well meaning if not all positive! Please don't get arsey though if i either question something that 'feels' wrong to me or if i simply refuse to take perfectly good advice just because it doesn't suit me.

I'd rather try and fail than quit cos someone said it couldn't be done.

db · Post by db » Fri May 20, 11 12:53 pm

Just been checking up on the specifics of bottles- whats legal and what ain't...

This page is all about testing and refilling, from the UK's largest N2O supplier-
http://www.nitrousoxidesupplies.co.uk/a ... /faq.phtml

The interesting bits...
We can refill any cylinder of any size with any connection as long as it is within its test period and is EU (PED or TPED) Approved. Any EU approved cylinder will have a " n " mark on it, otherwise known as a pie mark.
http://www.luxfercylinders.com/about/qu ... tped.shtml
(I'VE JUST RUNG THEM AND THIS DOES INCLUDE CO2 BOTTLES AND YES EVEN USED FIRE EXTIGUISHERS, PROVIDING THEY ARE APPROVED AS ABOVE)

At this time, all cylinders manufactured within the UK and Europe have TPED or PED approval meaning they ARE EU approved. NX and NOS Cylinders are not EU approved as they only conform to DOT standards, and SHOULD NOT be refilled within the EU.

U.S. DOT cylinders we're allowed to be imported into the UK using Multilateral Agreement M125 but clearly stating that they should be re-exported back to the states for re-filling, however as of June 2006 this agreement has now been extended to 2011 and renamed the M180.
http://www.unece.org/trans/danger/multi ... 0180_e.htm

Here's the interesting bit about Non-EU made bottles (Eg NOS)- ...
(4) When empty, the pressure receptacles shall not be refilled and shall be re-exported to the country of origin

We can Retest cylinders through our sister company Energas, at their retest facility in Bradford. Retest costs (£50 + P&P) and the cylinder will need to be stamped to indicate it has been tested.
Non EU Cylinders however cannot be retested or modified to EU spec.

Anyone using a NOS or other US-spec kit is on shaky legal ground!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri May 20, 11 3:34 pm

I must be a twat

See you all in the playground

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri May 20, 11 4:35 pm

It can be a real beotch when it goes wrong though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVwBPorILOQ

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Fri May 20, 11 5:07 pm

Nick wrote:It can be a real beotch when it goes wrong though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVwBPorILOQ

kaboom kaboom holy Bananarama!

On a safety note, the fire crew reacted very quickly but should have got the driver after ripping off his door..

What tall people and short cars they have in Russia

db · Post by db » Fri May 20, 11 8:07 pm

Just looked at the co2 extinguishers in work.
They DON'T have the 'n' mark but are dated 2002 so maybe thats before the Euro directive?

Brutus- conkers at dawn?

Do slap me if i start to sound like i think i know what i'm on about cos i really don't

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 21, 11 6:27 am

[quote="db"

All i'm after here is help to achieve my little ambition of building a simple nitrous system of no more than 150hp for under £200.
Some of you don't believe it's possible, thats fine.
Some of you believe it's possible but stupid, not a problem- it won't be the first stupid thing i've done against all advice to the contrary.
Some of you have spent ££££ on your cars with many failures and successes.
Some of you think i'm a fool to even try.
[/quote]
I dont think it is possible to build a system for £200 even if you broke into Real Steel!
And don't worry about offending me Paul, I have been insulted by experts.
Quote Einstein
There are two things that are infinitive mans stupidity and the universe.
I am not sure about the former.

db · Post by db » Sat May 21, 11 7:24 am

db · Post by db » Sat May 21, 11 8:52 pm

You'll all be greatly relieved to hear i've just done a deal on a kit- i'll have it in a couple o weeks

Shame cos i've been busy today experimenting with making jets...

50x M5 anodised ally allen bolts £2.49 delivered
1 x miniature drill set 0.35mm - 1.6mm £3.00 delivered
1 x M5 tap to thread holes in plastic £1.00.

Result:
11 pairs of jets made for the price of one!
I've checked the drill bits with a vernier and they're about 0.01mm out but as they're matched pairs they'd be accurate enough for nitrous/ fuel.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 21, 11 9:31 pm

DB , i'm pretty sure you are on a wind up

, jets are flowed for accuracy (trajectory through orifice), no way do those jets you've drilled come anywhere near the correct flow rate per supplied jet , i can guarantee the flow rate of these jets will be around 30% down of any jet supplied with these kits , looking at those jets will they fit the plate?

Use these on a plate/fogger kit & you may find you'll be picking up engine parts mid track , maybe a good thing considering breakages are all part of the learning curve.

AKA Brutus.

db · Post by db » Sun May 22, 11 8:45 am

Fair point mate

These were just a 'first draft', drilled by hand.

TBH the drill bits were pretty poor as you'd expect for that price. Sizes were ok, within 0.01mm but some would't actually drill!

They ain't meant for any shop-kit, a DIY system will use industrial solenoids jetted at the solenoid.

As far as the accuracy of my DIY jets goes- ok my 1.20 jets may come out 1.18 but so long as each pair is matched surely they'd be ok? (i've pre-drilled one end of the bolts to 2mm so the jetting hole is about 2mm in length, chamfered all edges, etc.) I'd use a jig and buy better drill bits for a bit more accuracy in any jets i was to actually use!

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Sun May 22, 11 8:54 am

The only bit of this i don't understand is why put all this effort and money into this when you don't actually have a working car yet? Or have I missed something?

db · Post by db » Sun May 22, 11 11:39 am

Cos the car ain't here yet Dave, i need summat to occupy my brain!
Roofer's here today dodging the weather so hopefully the garage should be ready in about a month- you see this thread dry up very quickly then