acrylic or 2pac?

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Wed Sep 29, 04 8:43 am

im getting a little ahead of myself here but my car should be ready for painting by nexy spring/summer. do i get it painted in acrylic or 2pac?
i know 2pac is alot more hard wearing and more expensive. and that acrylic fades alot more and needs regular polishing.
what experiance have you guys had in this area? any pointers would be much appreciated.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Sep 29, 04 9:21 am

Ivor is yer man... I used to paint my own cars. I always used acrylic, cos it was nice and easy. 2 pack would have killed me dead!
But I guess if you are having it don professionaly use 2 pack.
I have got a bike to paint soon, I will be using acrylic. METALFLAKE of course Yee ha!!

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Wed Sep 29, 04 9:50 am

jeff, did you notice any pain fade after a few months with acrylic? i would like to give painting a go but ive not got the facilities so it looks like a pro job.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Sep 29, 04 9:57 am

The paint lasted years!! I did clear it all as well for added protection!

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Wed Sep 29, 04 5:18 pm

Two pack is the better option, hard as nails and shiny as you like!

MrNorm · Post by **MrNorm** » Wed Sep 29, 04 5:40 pm

Two pack can be acrylic as well - my single stage 2 Pack is acrylic urethane.

Two pack just means you need a hardener.
Two stage is basecoat/clearcoat, also 2 pack.

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Wed Sep 29, 04 6:17 pm

now im getting confused! the shiny 2pac was originaly designed for aircraft correct?
does anyone know the price difference between an acrylic and 2pac paint job? both will be starting at bare metal.

MrNorm · Post by **MrNorm** » Wed Sep 29, 04 6:35 pm

Andy, you can get 2 pack acrylics!!
You can't give the price difference between a 2pac and acrylic job without more details because they can be the same thing!!
You can get 2 pack acrylic urethanes, 2 pack acrylic enamels, 2 pack acrylic lacquers etc.

I think what you are asking is a non-2 pack versus a 2 pack?
You might be able to get a non-two pack acrylic lacquer? Ivor will know!
And you can still get cellulose over here I think, which is not two-pack (what the Yanks used to call lacquer).

I'm not sure there is an appeciable price difference though, except you have to add the cost of the hardener, not outrageous.

However, If you're really asking about single stage versus two stage (base/clearcoat), yes, it will cost you double cos you're using twice the paint!

Which one do you mean?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Sep 30, 04 9:11 am

OK, 2 pack is an acrylic but "acrylic" usually means Acrylic Lacquer which is a slightly more high tech version of Celulose. To avoid winding Mr Norm up any further we'll call it 1K from now on!

1K clear will go over celly (thats what I just did on the Victor) and it will go over 2 pack basecoat. The thing about 2 pack basecoats is they don't need a hardener and its the hardener that kills you.

However....

1K does fade and need polishing and has a surface which is sort of soft like celulose (although a bit harder wearing).

2K proper clear is pretty hard but scratches and marks in it show up as the light catches them.

If you want a hard wearing non-metallic paint job you can get a single stage 2 pack which uses no clear. It uses hardener though so its poisonous extremis! however as theses no clearcoat the little marks you get don't show up so much in the light. You don't get the deep "lacquer" gloss though.

Confusesed yet? LOL

If you are getting the job done by a pro then it will be 2 pack 99% sure of it as bodyshops need to be compliant with all kinds of H&S laws and 2 Pack makes it easy for them to do that. So the only question is single stage or clear-over-base? If its metallic its not even a question. C-O-B for metallics always.

if you're DIY'ing then cely with a 1K clear is easiest, or 2K base with a 1K clear will work well too. Not tried applying 2K bases yet so no idea if they are easier than celly to work onto the car.

MrNorm · Post by **MrNorm** » Thu Sep 30, 04 12:31 pm

Just trying to make sure everyone is talking the same language

You know you can get Acrylic lacquer in both 1K and 2K, right! So best to make sure of the question to make certain of ending up with the right product/advice!

Alastair - did I miss something (quite possibly...) - you stated that "The thing about 2 pack basecoats is they don't need a hardener...."
The definition of 2 pack is paint + hardener. 2K=2 komponent (German), i.e paint and hardener, rather than 1K - just the paint.

I went with the single stage 2 Pack. With PPG's prices, I couldn't afford a B/C!!

Ivor · Post by **Ivor** » Thu Sep 30, 04 1:11 pm

With the trade moving over to waerborne technogy these days, single pack (1K) acrylics are quite rare these days and tend to be the products of the lower tech paint companies, or old technology still sold for plant and industrial applications.

However, the waterborne basecoat is still lacquered with a two pack (isocyanate hardened) clear in exactly the same way as conventional basecoat, which incidentally doesn't requie a hardener under normal cirumstances.

The instances where a hardener is added to th basecoat is where you have a high film build such as the ground oat of a three stage pearl...have I bored you to death yet?...or when you are applying a basecoat without a clear, such as inside and engine bay, where you want to reproduce the matt factory finish.

In my humble opinion, the best paint currently available is solvent based polyester clearcoat with an isocyanate hardened two pack polyurethan or acrilic resin based clear.

The colour matches are perfect, it's easy to use (with air fed respiratory protection, of course) and is as hard as nails.

Sorry to respond a bit late on this one, I've been working...

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Sep 30, 04 3:32 pm

Ivor wrote:In my humble opinion, the best paint currently available is solvent based polyester clearcoat with an isocyanate hardened two pack polyurethan or acrilic resin based clear.

Thats easy for you to say [/Two Ronnies Mode off]

Erm, but do you mean a solvent based polyester basecoat or am I totally confused (again)....

In which case thats also whats called a HS Polyester Base? Yes? No?

Gonna paint me some mopar soon so I'm taking notes

Putting Celly on the Ambo again though, sorry

just to "hold it" tidy until I can do a bare metal on it some time probably next winter at this rate

Trigger_Andy · Post by **Trigger_Andy** » Thu Sep 30, 04 3:38 pm

cheers for all the info guys,i think ive got the jist of it.
i phoned the local paint shop today and they've gone into recievership

its kinnda tricky trying to find a company who will take my car on in my area. we dont see many american/aussie cars up here and i think its scaring them off.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 07, 04 10:25 am

MY GOD YOU LOT!!!!

I saw andy's thread and thought "good question, I want my charger done next year and the answer to this one willl be just what I'm looking for".

I am now a gibbering wreck as the info has just left me totally confused and disorientated

. Bodywork has never been a forte of mine.

Can I simplify the question from my point. I would like a spray job that is non-metallic, hard as nails and as shiny as possible. What should I ask for.

Thanks chaps

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 07, 04 10:46 am

2 pack. Pretty much everywhere will do it in 2 pack anyway. Various regs make it tricky for them to use the old school paints like celulose or acrylic lacquer now.