Does anybody have experience of these?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Nov 28, 04 11:01 pm

Edelbrock fuel injection system that'll go on a big block.
Found it on the Edelbrock site.
i would post a pic but not sure how!
says upto 550hp, so would i need anything else for this much ooomph?
what about kickdown and any other carb related stuff.
at current exchange rate i really fancy this, but don't tell my wife as she thinks christmas is coming!

it might even pay for itself if its good on fuel.[/img]

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Sun Nov 28, 04 11:08 pm

It takes a LOT of Planning, component matching, and money to get that sort of horsepower; not by just bolting on a fuel Injection system.

Of course you could just bolt on a Nitrous system & get that power - but for how long without going through the motor first

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Nov 28, 04 11:20 pm

yeah i understand that pete, i'm up for some more power anyway.
i'm doing a bit of a revamp for the short term, striped it down to shortblock in-situ.
done heads, timing set, headers etc.
what about the 450hp version then, iv'e fitted a speedpro cam thats three up from stock on a new yorker (which is in my charger) and i'm led to belive thats one up from stock charger spec.
its the clean running and mpg i'm interested in.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sun Nov 28, 04 11:34 pm

I have heard varied reports on the system, I would be interested to see how it works out, I am unsure of the software for programming it, in the past with Zytec race and Honda PGM F1 race (TOCA) we have had to use a rolling road to get the base setting and them track time with a lappy to get it right.

I have worked with DTM aftermarket for road cars and that was a pain, the driveability part was not to bad as you start by building a map based on the stock system i.e. the advance map you build mirrirs what you see in advance on the stock system, same with the injector pulse width, that gets it going and them you finesse both curves for best power on accel and best economy on cruise.

It all starts to get to get tricky with cold start sequences and hot start etc, I was shown how to do that by the guy who invented DTM himself and it still took a good while to grasp it.

So it depends, with time and patience and a load of dyno time you could in theory get a really nice driving car, but in all honesty, unless it is 90% ready to go out the box apart from fine tuning or you really understand EFI it is going to be a struggle and frustrating.

If Sandy sees this he may comment as I know he used to tinker with the Buick with a lappy on the passenger seat and get cool results.

HTH

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Sun Nov 28, 04 11:49 pm

I will throw in my two cents worth if you like?

I know guys that swear by these systems but many others that have given up and gone back to a 4bbl. You have to really understand what your engine needs and how to taylor the system to deliver it.

Tinkering with a stock system is one thing but starting from more or less scratch is another. All you will gain at the end of the day is slightly (and i do mean slightly) more mpg and a crisper throttle response than a correctly tuned carb. It will not add any more power than a correctly tuned carb either.

For the price of the induction system you could build a very cool and well running 4bbl carb engine making good power. If money is no problem and you like tinkering go for it. Value for time and money is with the 4bbl.

The cheapest way to get crisp throttle response and good mileage is to fit a small carb and a short duration camshaft.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Nov 29, 04 9:10 am

My (short) view on these are watch those BHP numbers...

a Holley 1050 might be good for 650 BHP but sticking one on your stock 318 won't make it a 650 BHP 318...

The edelbrock is supposed to be one of the easiest EFI conversions but its $2500 or something for the basic kit. Thats if you have a laptop to tune it, they do one with its own "user interface" box but thats more money.

I like the look of them, I like the idea of not having to keep messing about with carbs, especially in the winter, but its a lot of dosh.

Good luck if you go for it.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Nov 29, 04 11:31 am

its about $2500 with the interface and all other bits needed, i would love to build a motor based on what this can do.
just think, with all the right hardware in the block, a pair of performer heads etc then get a multistage nitrous kit and a fully programmable engine management so when you hit the nos it sorts the extra fuel out and retards/advances the sparks.

the reason the Aprilia RS 125cc is capable of 125mph (full power version) is mostly down to advance/retard management.

i like Richards (top gear/motiveV8) approach, all mod cons etc

all that power without so much as a dimple in the bonnet.

i feel that dynotime is a must whatever you tune.

oopps, sorry i ment hood.

would anyone belive me if i said iv'e run a mid 15 at pod on a 172cc auto scooter?

the proper blokes run 13's

check out http://www.x-race-uk.info/news.php

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 29, 04 11:45 am

Best way to make a scooter go fast is to drive it off a cliff. :nike:

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 29, 04 12:17 pm

For $2500 you could fit a procharger and a 4bbl and make more horsepower than you could ever use without messing about with tuning very much and without having to have sensors everywhere giving you information that you will never be sure is right.

I am a guy that likes to fiddle with things myself. Hence my bad eyesight.

I have often pondered about fuel injection but the cost/hassle far outways any gains you think you will get.

But if you have your heart set on it don't let us put you off. Go ahead because I would love to see one done over here.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 29, 04 12:20 pm

Just checked out your link. 12.7 on a Vespa? You guys are crazy.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Nov 29, 04 2:38 pm

sorry, whats a procharger? and does it need a hole in yer hood?

i just like the idea thats all. pipe dream tis!

after this morning under my car i feel like leaving it well alone once it's done.

just in the middle of removing header again after marking with paint where it hits the starter(mini), the steering box and the torsion bar.

i feel a bashing coming on, now where's me ball hammer. what good is warrenty on headers anyway?

as for fitting a heat sheild, well i couldn't fit a fag paper between starter and header even after a bashing.

isn't hindsight great, wish i'd just spent the money on the stock cast header now. dOh!

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Mon Nov 29, 04 3:03 pm

A procharger is a centrifugal supercharger, like a paxton
it will fit under the stock hood, but I'm not entirely convinced you could fit one for $2500 though you'd need a few other upgrades as well as buying the thing and you'd need a modified carb
my mates doing a paxtoned 302 with a carb at the moment and I'm looking forward to seeing it go next year

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Nov 29, 04 3:41 pm

If I had the money to build and run an ideal daily driver it would be a nice B body with a 360 EFI'd motor, or hang it, a 5.7 Hemi crate motor

The only car I can directly compare carbs with EFI on is a Mini as we have had both carb and SPI versions and EFI does start better, give a more consistant idle, etc. Its not been without its faults and I'd regard the Mini's factory EFI as being pretty much an aftermarket conversion but done by the factory if you see what I mean. (its a parts bin jobbie!)

You pay a lot of money out for the stuff, and what makes it worth having (IMHO) is when your mopar is covered with ice and its sleating and you are crawling through the rush hour traffic to work. If you use your Mopar for this then inject it by all means. If its a weekend blaster in the summer then its not going to do a lot for you for the money its cost. There is the "wow" factor when you open the hood, but a lot of these TBI systems look pretty much like a 4 barrel on a Performer anyway at first glance. Now a FAST setup with 4 twin TBs and ram pipes, billet fuel rails etc. thats a WOW factor injection system, but they are serious $$$$.

Horses for courses really.

If you want it, go for it, we're not really in this hobby for taking sensible options are we, driving big old V8s in a country with scappy little roads and 87p a litre unleaded.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Nov 29, 04 3:43 pm

oh, but keep an eye out on eBay etc. not long back there was a Holley throttle body, some HP fuel lines, Commander ECU, wiring loom and some other bits, fits on any 4 barrel square bore intake, went for about ?80 the lot.

I was tempted, but skint. So I didn't.

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Nov 29, 04 3:55 pm

Alistair wrote:If you want it, go for it, we're not really in this hobby for taking sensible options are we, driving big old V8s in a country with scappy little roads and 87p a litre unleaded.

True.

So here is how to fit a 383 Challenger with EFI in a Car Craft article from 1993. Seems like only yesterday to me.