Front turn signal issue for MOT

Super Sloth · Post by **Super Sloth** » Wed Sep 14, 16 2:17 pm

The first MOt is due in just under a month for our Demon so I need to sort out the indicators...

I have two issues, one is that they don't flash quickly enough unless you raise the revs. I'm assuming the relay is knacked so I've ordered a new electronic version.

The orther issue I have is that the front indicators come on when I put on the side lights or headlights.
They do flash correctly when the turn signals are used, however whether the headlights are on or off.
I'm assuming that must be a design feature of the car?

For the UK MOT I don't think I'm allowed to have amber indicators on solidly when the headlights are on, though?

What have I got to modify on the wiring to prevent them coming on when the headlights or sidelights are on?

Thanks in advance,

Jon.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Sep 14, 16 2:43 pm

They have twin filament bulbs (5w/21W) for sidelight and indicator, and 2 wires (+earth).

So replace it with a 21W for indicator only, and run the sidelight wire to a 5W bulb in the headlamp. You can buy new headlamps with provision for sidelights quite cheaply.

Have the rear indicators already been converted from red to amber?

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Wed Sep 14, 16 3:38 pm

your side lights/indicator take an offset bayonet twin filament bulb

standard bulbs don't have the offset bayonet and do not fit an offset bayonet holder

leave the orginal indicator/side light bulbs in place

and run the side light wire to the side light bulbs in your headlamps

or

do nothing

mine are the same and I have had no problem in 12 years with MOT

slow flashing is due to wrong resistance in the circuit. not too sure if its is too high or too low. the indication of a blown flasher bulb is usually too fast flashing

undo all the indicator housings from the body and do them up again

or run earth wires from housing to chassis/ grill

your headlmap/side lamp clusters should already have a wire running from under one of the trim rings that holds in the glass to the front radiator support

it often just left hanging after a sealed beam swap and things then tend to deteriorate as the mounting screws corrode

you may also find that the indicator flasher bulbs in the dash have been changed, you can get 5 watt 10 watt or 15 watt this causes a change in resistance which can impact flash rate.

too high watts in the cluster bulb

1) causes the indicators to flash at the wrong speed
2) causes the gell domes that make the light green to bubble and burn

alternative is you have poor earthing of the dash pod

If my dash is left hanging by the wires and not bolted down properly my indicators come on and stay on and never flash. That may be peculiar to my car 2 pin round flasher can and no hazard flashers.

Super Sloth · Post by **Super Sloth** » Wed Sep 14, 16 4:08 pm

Thank you for the rapid responses, gents.

Rears have already been converted using the reverse lights so I'm happy to leave that as it is.

I took one of the bulbs out and compared it to a 21w bulb I had spares. The terminal on the base is indeed different and also one of the bayonettes are set at a slightly different height - this, presumably so you can't do what I was attempting and get the bulbs mixed up.

I discovered that the headlights had already been converted to take a 5w bulb. The feed for this had been soldered into each of the pigtails that supply the indicator/sidelight.
Now I think about it, I recall Dave Madders telling me that it'd had new headlights.

I do actually want to keep the amber front sidelights day to day. The solution I came up with was to snip the yellow wire to the front indicator with the piggyback for the headlight. Sure enough, I now have the functionality I need for Mr MOT man.
When it comes back from the MOT I will dig out some lucas type bullet connectors from my MG spares box and solder them onto each of the three wires. I can then just unplug the apropriate connector at MOT time and reconnect when I get home.

With respect to the flasher speed, when the hazard lights are turned on the flash rate is spot on so I assume the earths at the lamps must all be good.
When i've had this symptom on MG's in the past - slow flashing until revs raised above tickover a new flasher relay has always cured the issue?
I guess there could be something amis with the indicator switch?
Alternatively, perhaps the bulbs in the rear cluster are the wrong wattage?

Now I've thought about it, I'd better order some black and silver motorbike numberplates. No doubt i'll get caught out for the black and silver states-style plates knowing my luck!

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Wed Sep 14, 16 4:37 pm

depends where you get your MOT

some are much more open to interpreting the rules based on what they see, and how it was made back in 72 rather than what they read in the big book of MOT stuff.

some seem to say if it is safe, it passes (within reason nobody wants to loose their licence)

others say your Orange lights are too yellow or your number plate light is too feeble... and a withering look from the side lines doesn't work and neither does begging.

Dave

DaveMadders · Post by **DaveMadders** » Wed Sep 14, 16 4:56 pm

Did we not put a white sidelamp into new headlamps ?

If so, then this is now your obligatory lamp and you may have an orange running lamp in addition... some new cars are like this.

The lamps in the grille should have 5W orange running lamp (non obligatory) and 21W flasher as two components of the same fitting.

Super Sloth · Post by **Super Sloth** » Wed Sep 14, 16 5:15 pm

Hi Dave, yes the setup was exactly as you describe:
White bulb in the headlight acting as obligatory sidelight and 5w part of the orange indicator as additional running light.

I know you can have red and amber marker lights on the side of the car, but I was under the impression that the running light displayed on the front of a vehicle had to be white to be legal?

I like the setup as it was - just don't want to get caught out and have to go back for a re-test.

-Jon.

Dave81 · Post by **Dave81** » Wed Sep 14, 16 9:32 pm

Not aware that MOTs spec indicator speed........if it flashes then that should suit the requirement.

I'd just chuck it in and see what they say......

May not be an issue......so no need to tinker!

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Sep 15, 16 2:22 am

They normally only query indicator flashing speed if one side flashes at a different speed to the other. So, as long as they both flash at the same speed you should be ok

Post by **MattH** » Thu Sep 15, 16 9:03 am

The electronic flasher is excellent, about Â£10 from Moss. I did similar, white sidelamp behind the headlamp, the kept the orange as a running lamp.
Dave Madders is right about the obligatory lamp which makes your orange a running lamp and therefore OK

shovelheadrob · Post by **shovelheadrob** » Thu Sep 15, 16 10:37 am

The Mot regs say that the proprietary side light should be white, any other position lamps can be any colour you like as they are not part of the test, so basically leave as is.

shovelheadrob · Post by **shovelheadrob** » Thu Sep 15, 16 10:41 am

The Mot regs say that the proprietary side light should be white, any other position lamps can be any colour you like as they are not part of the test, so basically leave as is.

latil · Post by **latil** » Thu Sep 15, 16 10:53 am

Flash rate should be 60 to 120 per min.