Mopar Muscle Association UK

Ok chaps, new ignition switch wired in with new key/barrel.
Wiring is like for like.
Motor spins over on ACC1 position which is one stage too early.

Anyone come across this? Just wondering if when I offered up the switch to the new barrel I did so in one position 'out' causing the problem.

No time to strip it back out today , so opinions welcome begore I go back into it.

yes

you have the ACC wire connected to the starter motor START poistion and the starter motor Start wire connected to ACC position on the switch?

hence you get to ACC it sends a signal to starter solenoid

does the car run when in run position?
does it start in the ACC position this will tell you which way wrong you are?

bet the accessories only come on when the key is in the last position twisted against the spring??

OR

those wires are correct and the other two are swapped

i.e power into switch is wire actually on a switch position designed to send power out hence only lets power reach 1 of the 2 places it should in each switch position.


use the positions of the wires on the switch base to compare like for like


OR

you have the switch in the housing 180* out of whack

OR

the switch is for something else


Dave

Cheers Dave. Symptoms as you described.
I ordered all the correct parts for difference that makes to Chinese engineering..

I went back into the switch. It only fits one way as does the barrel. That makes it a wiring issue,no?
Swapped wires into connector plug as instructions. Wires are coloured correctly as far as I can make out.

Will have to try looking at it over the weekend.

Bananarama! off now. This should have been a no brainer job

yeah its a wring thing

i had the same problem becasue my switch was wired in with just RED wire

red for all 4 connections that went to a block with

black dark blue light blue and orange

trial and error

if you can find out which of the wires into the switch is live all the time

and find out which is the input to the switch and connect it

you are half way there.


connect the wire that is live to what you think is the input

no other connection from the switch should be live with the switch in OFF or LOCK

if anything is live you don't have the input wire in correct position on the switch

once that is in poistion

switch switch to ACC

connect a each wire in turn to each of the switch outputs.

you are looking for the wire and position that causes a switched-on fan or wipers to work

if so thats the ACCs done connect up

next wire is the igntion wire
turn to run

you take one of the other two wires and connect to what you think is the RUN output

if the starter kicks thats the starter wire, i.e wrong one, connect it to the other wire output and the last one is igntion

try to start

of the starter spins , car starts but cuts out when you let go of the Key

RUN position and start Position have the starter and Ignition wires swapped
change em over and all will be well


Dave

Yeh Dave, just checked and the main feed wires ae on different positions on the old/new starter. So much for trusting the Rocakauto catalog.

Ill post pics over the weekend, but essentially the blue/yellow/brown feed wires are in different positions.
The yellow is live to the starter and is coming in too early..

At least my switch has the correct colours..just in the wrong order

if you have a starter with 2 thin wire connections and you get them round the wrong way at the starter it won't start the starter.

Dave

No mate, starter has one big lead and one little. No problem there. Its the new switch that is at issue. Old switch span starter on Run as it should do, not ACC

Could use some fresh eyes on this.

Today. Hot wired car to warm it up.

Then tried new ign switch again. Car fired up on what is usually the ACC position as previously mentioned. However, the starter keeps spinning whilst the engine is running. Not good.

Now what?

I'm enclosing a thread that shows the two switched I have as mine are identical and you can see wires are different as to where they connect on the switch.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/thr ... rk.372468/

This diagram shows the correct wiring
i

Am I right in thinking that the yellow to starter should only be live for Start/Run 2 and should be coupled with the brown wire? As the car starts, the voltage to those wires should drop out

yes they can be coupled together but when the key returns to ign on they must both go dead.
Brown is cranking live to coil side of ballast to give full 12v to coil but once car starts is should go dead and power to the coil must go through the ballast resistor.

are the switches the same or do they look like the switches in the ForAbodies Only thread?

if they differ you have 2 choices

1) side by side with a bulb battery and 3 bits of wire work out what each position does

2) get the wiring diagram for the later car that that new switch must come from and work out the colour equivalents


then you pull the wires from the connectors and put them in the correct order for your loom

my indicator switch was the same. pattern part colours made no sense and connected in slightly different places.


Dave

Thanks guys. Ive put a wanted ad out to see if anyone has an OEM switch in good order.

I cant get the terminals off the back of the switch so have had to cut some wires for testing purposes.

Its just a matter of testing a bit more and then reconnecting the wires.
Still cant believe how badly out the replacement switch is. Meant to be generic to all column switched Mopars from 1970-76
Its so far out it beggars belief.

The yellow wire comes on way too early, the black ACC wire doesn't and I suspect they will now have to replace each other. Absolute bodge.
At least the blue and red wires work properly...
Still, at least the switch works...

first build a table for new switch

swicth position, connector number(s), wire colour(s)
Lock
OFF
ACC
RUN
START

table for old switch (built from wire colours for your car from manual or from internet)
LOCK
OFF
ACC
RUN
START



with the two switches on the bench with your car battery or even better scalextric transformer (screw terminals and lower current)

put + to the hot wire position on both switches. just twist it on tight round the soldered neck of the wire that is there on the switch base. make sure it doesn't short to the case.

run - wire from the battery/transformer to a bulb. strip the wire right back and twist it round the main shank of the bulb just above the bayonets
check bulb lights by putting the bullet (main contacts) end of the bulb onto the + at the battery. it should light

switch both switches to ACC position
if old switch doesn't work on ACC then just worry about the new switch

put the bullet end of the bulb on each contact and record detail

i.e

made up colours for example

swicth position, connector number(s), wire colour(s)
Lock hot wire only RED (input)
Off hot wire only RED (input)
Acc 1 yellow
RUN 2and 3 blue and orange (output)
start 3 and 4 orange and dark blue (output)


you want

in acc position 1 output
in run position 2 output one for coil and the same one for acc
in start position 3 output one for coil(normal) one for coil (only during start) one for starter motor (only during start).


now you can compare both tables and do a wire colour KEY
old switch black = new switch blue
old switch RED = new switch RED
old switch yellow = new switch orange

I feel your pain
i had similar. just i had taken my switch apart to fix it
i had no wire colours (all red)
and i had inadvertently rebuilt my switch 180 degrees out. the internal base of the switch and the sliders inside work both ways but the sliders has its contacts in specific positions for tracks in the switch base, it all fits together fine either way but it changes the switch operation into a completely different order.
the coil was powered in OFF position and Start but the starter ran in ACC only.

hence method with bulb and wires was employed and eventually the switch was opened up again fixed again and i was back to where you are now.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I'm doing my tests in situ, but have arrived at the same conclusions. I actually got paper and crayons out and have been drawing up each different version so I know which works and which don't!
As you say, it's ensuring the 3 correct wires all go together for start.
I was almost tempted to fit an additional push button starter for the wires...

I'll get there eventually. Be nice to drive it again..

Looks like I'm fuxxed after all. I think the switch is wrong internally.

Tested voltage on the switch terminals tonight.
When in ign 2 (just before you switch to start car) every wire on the switch is live. There should be no voltage to the starter motor at that point.
When I switch the car on, Then voltage drops out. This is the opposite of what should happen.WTF