Resolved - Unwilling hot start

[morgan]

Query 2 of 2 this morning following a 30 mile commute in the old gal.
Glorious as always among all the eurotrash, but a couple of funnies...

Funny # 2 - Started nice from cold. 30 mile cruise to work. Stopped for a coffee. 5 mins later went to start her, REALLY slow, did not want to go at all. Battery charged, alternator charging nicely, battery not very old (I mean like 3 or 4 years I think - certainly much younger than the 15yr old halfords one I replaced that was still going great guns).

So starts from cold OK, slow and unwilling when hot. Mini starter failing ? Something funny going on with hot earth ? Just try a new battery and shutup ?
Ideas... ?

[MattH]

Sounds battery, or alternator intermittent. My alternator is sometimes great, other times rubbish, so possibly the regulator is at fault. I have a one wire alternator to fit but not had time yet, I just carry a jump starter.

[MilesnMiles]

I was plagued with hot start issues a few years back. Turned out to be the starter. I recently replaced my battery afte it turned 4 years old as a matter of course. What was the guarantee on it and is rated highly enough for the motor?

[Dave81]

Yep........ I'd go with Starter heat soak, and linked additional electrical resistance, resulting in laboured turnover.

Keep a tab on it. Mine went downhill like that at the start, then resulted in the dreaded ticking. Replaced and all good since.

[Dave999]

or earth strap...

dave

[morgan]

Thanks chaps.
Yes, underlines my thinking. I'll sling a temp earth onto it and see what that does. Borrow a battery. Replace the starter if needed i suppose.

ta.

[morgan]

Right chaps. This is getting worse. Had to Bananarama! off the forecourt yesterday but started soon after. Battery and alternator seem fine but crank is slow. When hot it doesnt turn at all at first then after a few mins will half-heartedly have a go - luckily she is a good start now so generally catches but it needs sorting. (no, I didnt bother earlier in the year).

Whats the current recommendation for mini-starters ? (assuming I dont find an earth cable hanging off or something)
440source seem to have ones they say are tip-top at $97 but the shipping is $101 !

[MilesnMiles]

I use the ones offebay £138 and works great. Are you sure the connections are good? My mini starter is tucked tight within the headers and getting the leads tight is a bugger. In fact I ended up splitting my leads and using two busses on the inner wing. It means I can fit my starter in the knowledge that the leads are properly connected on top of the mini. Also, they’re not earthing out intermittently are they? Had that too.

[MilesnMiles]

Ps, it’s not timing is it? Too much advance will drag a hot starter down every time.

[lough3969]

Assuming your battery has really good cranking amps.. have you ruled it out as the culprit?
I had the same issues with a mini starter and had to replace with new mini starter and wrap in heat wrap. .. still have to give it a whack with a hammer occasionally when hot... and that’s with an Optima Red Top battery in place. Always frustrating

[morgan]

Thanks chaps.
Yeah, saw the jenson ones on ebay £136. Like I say I will have a crawl round make sure nothing obviously hanging off.
It hasn't had a hard life - only done a few K but I suppose there have been some periods of 'breakdown' when I have had to crank until dry so maybe I broke it.
Battery is good - big/chunky/newish/bosch - plus that doesn't account for when its cold - when it cranks much better.

Good point ref timing - I think she is pretty good now, doesn't seem to kickback - cant remember exactly but I think she was about 10deg with 34 all in (cant quite remember the initial - got it written down somewhere). But I think its OK.

First stop - connections and earth.
Second stop ebay generic £136 then or find someone who is going to the US to bring me back a 440source one for $97.

ta

[MilesnMiles]

Good luck, Morgan. I have the same timing and every now and again it will pull the starter down, maybe 1:10 times, but it does happen. Seems a bit random, but if it does it agin, just retard the dizzy a touch and see if it starts right up.

[Dave999]

as far as i know

you just need one of the denso mini starters off rockauto or ebay.

most of the talk in respect to Hi torque hi output in the advertising is designed to make you think the starter in question has been uprated in some way. it hasn't in many cases it just has higher torque and higher power output than an original starter for your application, inside is same denso starter. it may have higher grade insulation or a special connector block but in many cases the seller has done nothing but paint it a nice colour stick on some stickers and put it in a box with flames or a funny car on it.

denso 17466 seems to work with small and big block

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... er&_sop=15

hot start issues

hot wireing?.....earth strap and if you have a none standard battery connectors take off the clamp ends clean the fat cables to bright copper and bolt the ends back on. notorious hiding place for green gunge. fill the bolt on section with vaseline when you push in the cable ends to be bolted again.

if you have standard they are crimped/soldered pretty good.

otherwise burnt corroded contacts in the starter solenoid? cold ok hot not good

very hot starter? heat soak from headers perhaps

boiling fuel??

hot coil?

erm

dave

[morgan]

Thorough as always Dave. Good shout on the relay - didnt realise they could be variable.

[rossk]

Remember reading somewhere that vapour lock can sometimes cause an issue?