MOT,d 66 Coronet
Moderator: Moderators
hello
first things first
i'm manual no power anything dude so what i write is based on what i read and a bit on assistance given to others with power steering....
i can't streess enough how good it is to have a manual.
factory manuals pop up on ebay sometimes.... and you can get scans on CD for about 10 bucks
sway bar is anti roll bar
sounds like you have the right torsion bars but measure thickness in inches of the thin bit to check
440 is probably gonna weigh the same as your current give or take a bit that doesn't matter.
Right
steering
2 types of pumps and boxes used on power steering cars
both work in much the same way
parts can be had for both from the US
it will probably be a 24:1 ratio linear box i.e it takes approximatly 100000000 twists of the wheel to go lock to lock
the performance cars got 20:1 ratio so swapping in a 20:1 box is a nice upgrade.
European Aussie and SA cars got 20:1 as standard and performance versions got 16:1. never seen a 16:1 power box mind..
3 things that i know you can adjust to make it feel better
firstly it sounds like it probably hasn't had much maintenance for a long time
will be worthwheile dumping the oil and re filling.
secondly it probably has 40 years worth of wear in it so i guess that sector shaft mesh with the ballnut will have play and the screw bearings will no longer have the factory specifed preload both of which make it feel loose and more like a rudder than a prescision steering gear.
sector shaft is the shaft that sticks out the bottom of the box and connects to the steering via the pitman arm.
the ballnut and screw assembly are the bit you twist with the steering wheel
ball nut runs on a screw the screw is just an extension of the steering column through the box
the rubber and cloth coupling (rag joint) between column and box should be renewed.
on the top side of the box i.e from above will be an adjuster its usually a allen headed bolt with a lock nut this adjusts mesh between sector teeth and ball nut teeth
both have gear teeth that are thicker at one end than the other. adjusting this adjuster rams the fatter parts of each teeth closer together.
jack up front of car
get wheels off ground
undo adjuster lock nut
wind adjuster out 2 turns
turn steering lock to lock
then back to centre
wind adjuster in until it starts to feel tight
wind steering lock to lock
check adjuster
nip it up slightly
is steering stiff in the middle?
if so
good
back the adjuster off so the feeling of stiffness is just gone
do up lock nut.
adjusting this will pull the sector shaft down into the box a tiny smidge which means its pre loading the screw aginst one of its bearings and lifting it out of the other i.e bearing preload will be even further out than it was before
to adjust this is a bit of a pig
you are supposed top take the box out and use a lever and spring balance to get a inch lb reading of force used to turn box but as the box is most likely worn screw that you'll get a few years out of it yet
the end of the box that connects to the steering column is made from an aluminum plug that screws in on a very fine thread
it is held in position by a massive hexagonal lock ring that will look like its part of the case...its not
use a long blunt implement and a hammer to give the lock ring a knock to loosen it. It usually has sections out of each corner of the hexagon anyway to help with this
spin it right up the theads applying wd40 to clean them off
next get a long bit of wood
wedge it into an indetation on the top of the alluminium plug and slowly tap it round to do it up tighter into the box
after each whack go and give the steering a bit of a twirl to help things seat
once it looks like it will go no further or the steering gets tight
give it a gentle whack back and do the lock ring up again.
or if you have Chrysler tool blaa blaa- blaaaaaa-blaa use it by fitting it into the holes in the alluminium plug.......
now you have adjusted the sector and ballnut mesh
and taken all play out of the screw bearings.
it should have a natural resistance that feels quite good and very littl slop i.e 1/2 inch turn of the wheel should make noticable twitch of road wheels
but its a power box....
they work based on hydraulic assistance to move the ballnut up and down the screw
and its kinda based on valves and a see saw (not an actual see saw but its easier to explain)
if you upset this see saw the assist applied to the steering will be weak in one direction and way too much in the other.
the adjustmenst we made may have upset this see saw
i.e with the engine running you may find the car now self steers and the wheel will spin round to either full lock left or full lock right
You can stop it doing this by adjusting the postion of the distribution block on the case where the pipes go in.
too far one way or the other and the steering goes mad
just right and it will stay in the middle and not favour one side or the other i.e you balance your see saw perfectly
There may be other things you can do to alter the ammount of assist that the box gives
but i'm not sure on that front.......
if the box is screwed
you can buy rebuild kits from the states
they are expensive
many of the seals and bearinsg can be had from your local bearing supply place
if sector shaft and ballnut and screw are worn
dress the sector shaft teeth.
dress the ballnut teeth.
polish the bearing surfaces
buy a set of new balls from here
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=23
and get secotor shaft, screw and ballnut hard chromed to bring it back into dimensional spec.
or just bite the bullet and go to flameing river
20:1 box with their quick action idlers and pitman arm will give you 16:1 ratio steering....
Dave
first things first
i'm manual no power anything dude so what i write is based on what i read and a bit on assistance given to others with power steering....
i can't streess enough how good it is to have a manual.
factory manuals pop up on ebay sometimes.... and you can get scans on CD for about 10 bucks
sway bar is anti roll bar
sounds like you have the right torsion bars but measure thickness in inches of the thin bit to check
440 is probably gonna weigh the same as your current give or take a bit that doesn't matter.
Right
steering
2 types of pumps and boxes used on power steering cars
both work in much the same way
parts can be had for both from the US
it will probably be a 24:1 ratio linear box i.e it takes approximatly 100000000 twists of the wheel to go lock to lock
the performance cars got 20:1 ratio so swapping in a 20:1 box is a nice upgrade.
European Aussie and SA cars got 20:1 as standard and performance versions got 16:1. never seen a 16:1 power box mind..
3 things that i know you can adjust to make it feel better
firstly it sounds like it probably hasn't had much maintenance for a long time
will be worthwheile dumping the oil and re filling.
secondly it probably has 40 years worth of wear in it so i guess that sector shaft mesh with the ballnut will have play and the screw bearings will no longer have the factory specifed preload both of which make it feel loose and more like a rudder than a prescision steering gear.
sector shaft is the shaft that sticks out the bottom of the box and connects to the steering via the pitman arm.
the ballnut and screw assembly are the bit you twist with the steering wheel
ball nut runs on a screw the screw is just an extension of the steering column through the box
the rubber and cloth coupling (rag joint) between column and box should be renewed.
on the top side of the box i.e from above will be an adjuster its usually a allen headed bolt with a lock nut this adjusts mesh between sector teeth and ball nut teeth
both have gear teeth that are thicker at one end than the other. adjusting this adjuster rams the fatter parts of each teeth closer together.
jack up front of car
get wheels off ground
undo adjuster lock nut
wind adjuster out 2 turns
turn steering lock to lock
then back to centre
wind adjuster in until it starts to feel tight
wind steering lock to lock
check adjuster
nip it up slightly
is steering stiff in the middle?
if so
good
back the adjuster off so the feeling of stiffness is just gone
do up lock nut.
adjusting this will pull the sector shaft down into the box a tiny smidge which means its pre loading the screw aginst one of its bearings and lifting it out of the other i.e bearing preload will be even further out than it was before
to adjust this is a bit of a pig
you are supposed top take the box out and use a lever and spring balance to get a inch lb reading of force used to turn box but as the box is most likely worn screw that you'll get a few years out of it yet
the end of the box that connects to the steering column is made from an aluminum plug that screws in on a very fine thread
it is held in position by a massive hexagonal lock ring that will look like its part of the case...its not
use a long blunt implement and a hammer to give the lock ring a knock to loosen it. It usually has sections out of each corner of the hexagon anyway to help with this
spin it right up the theads applying wd40 to clean them off
next get a long bit of wood
wedge it into an indetation on the top of the alluminium plug and slowly tap it round to do it up tighter into the box
after each whack go and give the steering a bit of a twirl to help things seat
once it looks like it will go no further or the steering gets tight
give it a gentle whack back and do the lock ring up again.
or if you have Chrysler tool blaa blaa- blaaaaaa-blaa use it by fitting it into the holes in the alluminium plug.......
now you have adjusted the sector and ballnut mesh
and taken all play out of the screw bearings.
it should have a natural resistance that feels quite good and very littl slop i.e 1/2 inch turn of the wheel should make noticable twitch of road wheels
but its a power box....
they work based on hydraulic assistance to move the ballnut up and down the screw
and its kinda based on valves and a see saw (not an actual see saw but its easier to explain)
if you upset this see saw the assist applied to the steering will be weak in one direction and way too much in the other.
the adjustmenst we made may have upset this see saw
i.e with the engine running you may find the car now self steers and the wheel will spin round to either full lock left or full lock right
You can stop it doing this by adjusting the postion of the distribution block on the case where the pipes go in.
too far one way or the other and the steering goes mad
just right and it will stay in the middle and not favour one side or the other i.e you balance your see saw perfectly
There may be other things you can do to alter the ammount of assist that the box gives
but i'm not sure on that front.......
if the box is screwed
you can buy rebuild kits from the states
they are expensive
many of the seals and bearinsg can be had from your local bearing supply place
if sector shaft and ballnut and screw are worn
dress the sector shaft teeth.
dress the ballnut teeth.
polish the bearing surfaces
buy a set of new balls from here
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=23
and get secotor shaft, screw and ballnut hard chromed to bring it back into dimensional spec.
or just bite the bullet and go to flameing river
20:1 box with their quick action idlers and pitman arm will give you 16:1 ratio steering....
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
if you search the message board for "landcruiser"
you will find Antons Hilux upgrade
KevBs early landcruiser upgrade
and a couple of posts i made where i posted up what i'd Stolen wholesale off another messagebaord regarding using bits of Toyota to update A body brakes
you have a B body and your spindles won't have the disk caliper mount which adds expense to a relatively low cost upgrade
suitable calipers are 40-80 quid on ebay
if you got spindles with a caliper mount and are happy to grind and mess about a bit with the rolling diameter of the disks (need about 6 mm off) you can probably put some 90s landcsruier calipers on there running a vented A body mopar disk and still be able to run 14 inch wheels on the front if you wanted to.
these caliopers are 4 pot and much more efficient they are designed to stop a landcruiser with this smaller disk but a bigger rolling deimeter wheel and tyre so should be quite good at stopping a B body that has way less electrical and sound dedening equipmernt in it. i.e its heavy but its lighter than a modern truck.
The landcruiser uses NISSIN branded calipers more usually seen on landcrusiers Hilux Surf and 4Runner certain Nissan sporty cars in the Z and ZX range
loads of race spec pads
the pads also seem to match at least 1 of the wilwood calipers
anything form say 94-96 K reg will work but tracking down the right spindles that will fit your big balljoint car will be fun....
70s 73----> dodge dart swinger spindles might be the go. Think they used big balljoints had the disk brake caliper mount and take a suitable vented disk....US cars are not my strong point you'd need further input from US car owners to get the right combo of disk spindle that fits your ball joints and track rods
Dave
you will find Antons Hilux upgrade
KevBs early landcruiser upgrade
and a couple of posts i made where i posted up what i'd Stolen wholesale off another messagebaord regarding using bits of Toyota to update A body brakes
you have a B body and your spindles won't have the disk caliper mount which adds expense to a relatively low cost upgrade
suitable calipers are 40-80 quid on ebay
if you got spindles with a caliper mount and are happy to grind and mess about a bit with the rolling diameter of the disks (need about 6 mm off) you can probably put some 90s landcsruier calipers on there running a vented A body mopar disk and still be able to run 14 inch wheels on the front if you wanted to.
these caliopers are 4 pot and much more efficient they are designed to stop a landcruiser with this smaller disk but a bigger rolling deimeter wheel and tyre so should be quite good at stopping a B body that has way less electrical and sound dedening equipmernt in it. i.e its heavy but its lighter than a modern truck.
The landcruiser uses NISSIN branded calipers more usually seen on landcrusiers Hilux Surf and 4Runner certain Nissan sporty cars in the Z and ZX range
loads of race spec pads
the pads also seem to match at least 1 of the wilwood calipers
anything form say 94-96 K reg will work but tracking down the right spindles that will fit your big balljoint car will be fun....
70s 73----> dodge dart swinger spindles might be the go. Think they used big balljoints had the disk brake caliper mount and take a suitable vented disk....US cars are not my strong point you'd need further input from US car owners to get the right combo of disk spindle that fits your ball joints and track rods
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
-
Dave-R
- Posts: 24752
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 11:23 pm
- Location: Dave Robson lives in Geordieland
- Contact:
The only way to make a power steering box feel more positive i.e. "firm feel" is to add extra spring plates between the bearings in the input shaft.
As they are they will feel very light as they come from the factory unless your car is "Police Spec".
Front end alignment as the factory set it is also rubbish and designed to make the steering even lighter rather than better handling.
As they are they will feel very light as they come from the factory unless your car is "Police Spec".
Front end alignment as the factory set it is also rubbish and designed to make the steering even lighter rather than better handling.
Welcome to the Board Al, its always great to see another MoPar in Sunny Dorset, I think we have spoke in the past, anyway best of luck with your Coronet, it looks great. 
1969 Dodge Coronet SuperBee.
1968 Dodge Charger.
1962 Imperial LeBaron 4-dr HT.
1969 Mercury Marquis 2-dr HT.
1955 Cadillac series 62 2-dr HT Cpe.
1956 Chevrolet Belair 4-dr Sedan.
1977 Lincoln Continental Mark V.
1994 Ford Mustang GT V8
2003 Audi A4 TDI Estate
2005 Ford Transit
1968 Dodge Charger.
1962 Imperial LeBaron 4-dr HT.
1969 Mercury Marquis 2-dr HT.
1955 Cadillac series 62 2-dr HT Cpe.
1956 Chevrolet Belair 4-dr Sedan.
1977 Lincoln Continental Mark V.
1994 Ford Mustang GT V8
2003 Audi A4 TDI Estate
2005 Ford Transit
Its great to get so many encouraging replys.
That gives me lots to work on ,may take me a while though ! Dave, thats a real library of information ,better than a Haynes manual .I should have said I have fitted 15" wheels but I guess thats assumed.
Those Toyota conversions look good unless I can find the OEM bits. I suppose I need original parts anyway ,does anyone remanufacture any of them ?
Still, its good to have options .
I will keep you posted on progress .Thanks to one and all.
That gives me lots to work on ,may take me a while though ! Dave, thats a real library of information ,better than a Haynes manual .I should have said I have fitted 15" wheels but I guess thats assumed.
Those Toyota conversions look good unless I can find the OEM bits. I suppose I need original parts anyway ,does anyone remanufacture any of them ?
Still, its good to have options .
I will keep you posted on progress .Thanks to one and all.
Its a great car Al...i would go with OEM stuff otherwise when or if you sell later, i and others may be wary of a cobbled together system
Its also gonna be easier to swap the parts into the car....these were never the Best handling cars on the planet with the best brake ...you can upgrade but its never gonna be a modern WRX subaru in those departments.
..but with work it can turn tarmac to treacle easily and look a 1000 times better doing it
Its also gonna be easier to swap the parts into the car....these were never the Best handling cars on the planet with the best brake ...you can upgrade but its never gonna be a modern WRX subaru in those departments.
..but with work it can turn tarmac to treacle easily and look a 1000 times better doing it
ALL KILLER NO FILLER
Nostalgia, its not what it used to be.
Carbon footprint of a Saturn V
Nostalgia, its not what it used to be.
Carbon footprint of a Saturn V
-
Steve Chapman
- Posts: 1862
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 07 4:03 pm
- Location: North Yorkshire
Al, try this lot for brakes for your car....go back to the Home page and search....you have to close the pop ups as someone is popping up over their site...its safe though
http://www.aajbrakes.bravepages.com/rproductinfo.html
http://www.aajbrakes.bravepages.com/rproductinfo.html
ALL KILLER NO FILLER
Nostalgia, its not what it used to be.
Carbon footprint of a Saturn V
Nostalgia, its not what it used to be.
Carbon footprint of a Saturn V