Philth wrote:Don't believe all you read about E body handling - they really are no worse than any other Mopar (and still better than others IMHO ) - they just LOOK like they can handle better
In any case, as you said things can be done to any one of 'em to improve that - findings on the intraweb is proof of that!
If you want to try a Challenger give me a shout - I'm over in Essex. It rides and handles pretty good for and old motor
Its the old fashioned technology that gets me post 1970 vehicles with a 440ci Engine and no power assisted brakes or disc brakes in many of them. Maybe at 55 mph they didn't think it necessary without having to stand on the brakes?
The 55mph national speed limit came in 1974 I think? After the 1973 oil crisis. Big block cars were not being built by then.
Drum brakes offer less rolling resistance and so were prefered by the drag racers of the day. My 440 R/T Challenger had power assisted 11" drum brakes and actually stopped faster than it did once I converted it to discs. Although drums tended to throw you sideways and discs stopped the car dead straight.
Not opting for power assisted brakes and/or steering would be VERY unusual in the USA. Unless the car was intended by the purchaser to be used for weekend drag racing.
A dealer certainly would not order one like that unless a customer specified as he would have had trouble selling it.
My numbers matching 440 Challenger was modified for handling. The suspension being uprated about 30% over the stock 440/426 hemi spring rates the car came with.
I also customised it a fair bit and got the weight distribution to a front - rear weight split of 54.9% - 45.1%. This was with iron heads.
440 and Hemi Challengers came with re-enforcement on the chassis (same as convertibles) which made then stiffer. But chassis connectors welded between the front and rear "sub-frames" make a much bigger difference to the handling.
My Challenger handled pretty damn well with these mods.
[quote= "Carl"]Its the old fashioned technology that gets me post 1970 vehicles with a 440ci Engine and no power assisted brakes or disc brakes in many of them. Maybe at 55 mph they didn't think it necessary without having to stand on the brakes?[/quote]
Mine has power brakes with discs at the front and drums at the rear as standard (it's a 1973). It used to have power steering but now has manual (much preferred - always felt that the PS was over assisted). All the brakes are spot-on and it has brake pedal feel and pull-up almost like a new car with no indication of the dreaded lock-up (as proven from 70 to zero coming home from the Nats on the M1 ). All new parts, replaced like-for-like. Latest mod was the inclusion of sway bars front and rear which flattened out the handling nicely, not only round bends but left-to right-to left (eg) steering flicks. All the bushes & steering joints are new/good, and toe-in/camber/castor is good. Next is the fitment of frame connectors, but as it stands for an oldie the car feels pretty good (and safe) to me on the road. It's probably nowhere near as good as Daveman's but it ain't half bad
Dave wrote:
Not opting for power assisted brakes and/or steering would be VERY unusual in the USA. Unless the car was intended by the purchaser to be used for weekend drag racing.
A dealer certainly would not order one like that unless a customer specified as he would have had trouble selling it.
I'm not disbelieving you, far from it, as your Mopar knowledge is far superior to mine. I am in the process of looking to buy and have been trawling Ebay US and was suprised in the amount of cars I looked at that have no power brakes, which led me to think power brakes where obviously an option as well as disc brakes. Hence me mentioning it. And i must admit not having power assisted brakes did put me off some very lovely cars.
I went to Vegas for the Mats and they had sizeable autocourse set up with loads of tight bends in it. The whole thing was set up by Hodgekiss(sp?). They had a T/A Challenger they had worked on and that handled like a modern day performance car they were giving free rides in it to plug there stuff. Ok The T/A is a small block car but all the kit in terms of suspension , steering and brakes are available to improve a car - it just depends how deep your pockets are as it ain't cheap. The trick is to find what mods you can do for the least amount of money that make the most difference.
Carl wrote: which led me to think power brakes where obviously an option as well as disc brakes. Hence me mentioning it. And i must admit not having power assisted brakes did put me off some very lovely cars.
Yes indeed they were optional. I can only think you are finding the manual brake ones for sale because not many people would want them.
The cars that sell for very good money are the well optioned ones.
Drum brakes on normal cars don't really need a booster as they self servo, (get the leading shoe in the right place etc etc), they will fade with hard use though. Big block pony cars do not handle well, they were made for stoplight/drag racing and bragging rights.
Hell yeah. Once you get below 12" of vac at idle you start to loose the power brakes.
I agree the bigger drum brakes do not need assist. The bell crank on the power brake pushrod actually lessens the leverage to the master cylinder and it still brakes too hard at low speed.
I agree that a STOCK big block E-body will not handle well compared to a small block version.
But my 440 R/T had less front end weight than a stock small block version. So why would it not handle just as well if not (in fact) better?
So apart from having to push a bit harder on the brake peddle, is there going to be much difference in the stopping ability between manual and power brakes?
Actually you get used to it. The problem is jumping from one car to another.
You jump in a modern car and the first time you brake you nearly nut the steering wheel.
Drive the modern car and the next time you are out in your Mopar you have a panic moment thinking you are not going to stop in time.
Always best just to give yourself a littlle more braking distance.
Brakes on my Cuda are good (Were Good) until the carbon pistons in one of them jammed in the Caliper never to release ??
so now going for the Viper conversion
Although with the power brakes and an auxilliary vacuum pump they were brilliant.
Regardless you gotta love an E body the look gorgeous
I am biased
ALL KILLER NO FILLER
Nostalgia, its not what it used to be.
) - they just LOOK like they can handle better
). All new parts, replaced like-for-like. Latest mod was the inclusion of sway bars front and rear which flattened out the handling nicely, not only round bends but left-to right-to left (eg) steering flicks. All the bushes & steering joints are new/good, and toe-in/camber/castor is good. Next is the fitment of frame connectors, but as it stands for an oldie the car feels pretty good (and safe) to me on the road. 
, good luck with your quest for Mopar 
