Non-Starter - now a starter and appears to be a runner!

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sat Oct 05, 13 1:35 am

morgan wrote:
Rebel wrote:Similar thing happened to mine, it would start and get you where you wanted to go, then it wouldn't start to get you home again.

Tried everything, replaced pretty much everything, spoke to Dave R who advised looking at the ignition switch, replaced it and problem solved.

I have spares.

£5.00 each if you want / need one
ummm.. I'll have one please !

PM me you address and send the fiver to nige1965@hotmail.co.uk via paypal and I'll get one posted to you on Tuesday, sorry it can't be sooner

Thanks Morgan

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sat Oct 05, 13 1:40 am

RobTwin wrote:Thanks again for all the replies chaps

Apparently, the ignition switches are 1-year only, so our 69 might not be an exact match for a 68, or 70 etc, but may be close enough just to see if that's where the problem is.

So, Rebel, yes please, we would like to try one of your spares. I'll PM ya.

No problem Rob, I'll wait for your PM

Scooby · Post by **Scooby** » Sat Oct 05, 13 8:53 am

Rob you will need to get this right before fitting the Rev-n-Nator...or you will be totally confused.

Rich...

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Sat Oct 05, 13 11:15 am

jerry · Post by **jerry** » Sat Oct 05, 13 1:10 pm

Scooby · Post by **Scooby** » Sat Oct 05, 13 2:00 pm

Dave wrote:

Well worth a watch....first of the crazy soaps...

Don't make them like that anymore...

Stu Twin · Post by **Stu Twin** » Sun Oct 06, 13 11:38 pm

Well, found 1 probable cause of the non-starting. The skinny yellow wire from the bulkhead fitting to the starter relay had disintegrated where it entered the bulkhead. So, new wire soldered onto the old terminal and she fired up after just a few cranks.
But it was running rough, a bit like when it's cold but worse. So i checked a few voltages following recent advice:
Across battery terminals = 12.5V
With key in 'Run' between coil +ve & earth = 4V

With key in 'Start' between coil +ve & earth = 10V.

With a jumper wire across the Ballast Resistor i got:
With key in 'Run' between coil +ve & earth = 9.4V
With key in 'Start' between coil +ve & earth = 9.8V.

I realise the meter i got isn't the best available but i think it shows that i need to whip out the Ign switch, look for green stuff at any connectors, and fit a ballast resistor with lower ohm rating. Checked mine again and it says 1.8. R/T garage who sells the Rev'n'Ator recommend a 1 ohm ballast so i'll find one of them which should reduce the voltage drop.

On a more serious note, wasn't 'Soap' brilliant?
"Suppose you want me to get that?"

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Mon Oct 07, 13 1:55 am

Dave wrote:

I sat next to Jessica Tate on an internal US flight, probably 20 odd years ago. She was a nice lady, but seemed as looney as her TV character.

I used to enjoy Soap

Adrian Worman · Post by **Adrian Worman** » Mon Oct 07, 13 9:43 am

Bulkhead connector and the conn block at the base of the column are expert in providing resistance

......... strip, fine wire brush, straighten blades with pliers and apply dielectric grease, you'll never actually 'fix' that crap but you can make it better.
Sadly electrical issues haunt Mopars, if you got em until you install a new loom you'll always have some issues.
Consider an aftermarket loom, a lot on here have done it and are very happy

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Oct 07, 13 10:36 am

Getting there Stu...well done!

Im going to keep a note of that little test sequence you have described....what exactly was your thought process around that please and what did you expect to get as opposed to what you actually got??

Cheers Steve

Stu Twin · Post by **Stu Twin** » Mon Oct 07, 13 1:49 pm

Steve,
Not sure there was much of a thought process apart from the need to check the Ignition Switch before Dave R beats me up.
But before doing that i had noticed the dodgy wire.

I read a few online posts as well as the expert advice on here.
One that i found interesting for basic fault finding was:
http://www.moparaction.com/tech/archive/roadside.html

With a healthy system my understanding is:
With key in 'Run' between coil +ve & earth = 9V (approx)
With key in 'Start' between coil +ve & earth = 12V (approx).

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Oct 07, 13 1:59 pm

Thats a great article Stu.....thanks for posting! Copy of that going in my tool box in the car

cheers Steve

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Mon Oct 07, 13 4:19 pm

Stu Twin wrote:With a healthy system my understanding is:
With key in 'Run' between coil +ve & earth = 9V (approx)

Yes if you have a ballast resistor and a stock coil that runs at that voltage.

But with something like a MSD Blaster coil you need the full battery voltage at the coil in "run".

With key in 'Start' between coil +ve & earth = 12V (approx).

Well hopefully it will be more than 12v because it should be full battery voltage.

The reason the stock system runs like this is that when you crank the engine, the starter motor load pulls the voltage down. So the voltage at the coil is reduced. So the design engineers made the stock coil run at that lower voltage so it produces a strong spark when starting from cold when you need it. Then the resistor cuts in when you are not cranking so that the low voltage coil does not overheat the coil.

But for perfomance the aftermarket companies want you to run at full battery output so that their ignition systems can produce the powerful sparks they advertise. They assume you don't run your performance car in sub 20C temps so are not bothered about very cold starting.

Stu Twin · Post by **Stu Twin** » Tue Oct 08, 13 2:33 pm

I think it's starting to sink in Dave, so the MSD is ok to run without the ballast with no long term issues to the coil or anything else? (i have read this elsewhere but not pertaining to applications with ECU's, just 6AL's etc).
Regardless i still need to establish why only 9 or 10v are getting to the coil in 'start'. So as hinted i whipped out the Ign switch last night and to me it doesn't look too bad. No nasty green stuff as expected. and there are no dodgy connections as far as i can see between the back of the switch and the bulkhead fitting.
Having said that, the IGN1 terminal does look a bit black / green on 1 side. I wouldn't have thought that would make the difference but i will give it a clean & retry before trying a replacement.
Is there any way to do an electrical check to make sure the internals are ok? I could check resistance between the terminals in the plug and the terminals in the front of the b'hd fitting, if the leads on my meter were 6 ft long, but that doesn't tell me owt about the switch.
One other observation, there's no wire or termial connected to the plug for the GND terminal. Does the switch earth through the housing? there's nothing shown on that terminal on the FSM circuit either ??

Dave-R · Post by **Dave-R** » Tue Oct 08, 13 3:15 pm

It is on the inside of the switch where it wears. It might show a resistance on a meter. But you will not see much on the outside unless the resistance was making it hot. Then you get a bit of discolouring of the spade terminal. But if you had a bad connection on the spade then that would do the same thing.

Yes. The MSD coil is OK to run without the ballast. You only need the ballast with that coil if you have points instead of the electronic ignition because points wear out damn quick with a massive spark across them.