318 won't start

[A100]

AS the name suggests, I've got a 1965 A100 Sportsman with a slightly later 318/727 fitted.
I've had the wagon for a couple of years and it's never really given me a problem until recently.
I've been using it a couple of times a week going back and forth to my sons workshop, doing a 70 mile round trip each time.
Mostly motorway miles but when I get to a set of lights just a couple of hundred yards from home the engine dies. It would start straight back up again but a bit annoying nonetheless.
This seems to be the start of it, I just thought maybe it had got a bit hot in the traffic and was just being temperamental.
Anyway, about three weeks ago I jumped in the van, started it up but it just wouldn't idle. I left it alone and decided to have a look at it the next day.
Next day, and it wouldn't start at all!
So, Long story short, I've replaced spark plugs, leads, rotor arm, distributor cap, and coil. still no luck.
So, plugs out, cranked the engine and there's a lot of fuel spraying from the rear four cylinders (I guess because the engine is angled towards the rear) so I assume the carb is just dumping fuel into the intake.
Carb off, rebuild kit, carb back on, no more fuel being dumped into the inlet, STILL WONT START.
Its got electronic ignition, and had a new exhaust built about 2 months ago.
I'm going to do a compression test next but I'm running out of ideas.
Anyone got anything to offer?
I'm in North London so if anyone knows anyone nearby that might be able to wade in on this I'd be very happy to hear.
Thanks
Mark

[mopar_mark]

I remember when I had my old 318, it was running fine & just started to play up for no reason & eventually would not start. It turned out to be the plastic teeth on the timing chain gear had worn out & had lost timing.

Not saying your is the same issue, but easy enough to pull Bank 1 valve cover & check cam timing.

[aussie pete]

E10 petrol ?

[mygasser]

I remember when I had my old 318, it was running fine & just started to play up for no reason & eventually would not start. It turned out to be the plastic teeth on the timing chain gear had worn out & had lost timing.

Not saying your is the same issue, but easy enough to pull Bank 1 valve cover & check cam timing.

easiest way to check a wasted timing set is pop the dizzy cap off and rock the engine back and forth on the crank pulley. if the rotor arm moves straight away each way the timing set's good, if there's a lot of crank rotation each way before the rotor moves it's knackered.
another thought, have you put a spark plug in a lead (resting on the engine to earth it) and spun it over to check for spark?
neil.

[A100]

Yep, checked for a spark, fat spark from the coil and all 8 leads check out fine!
E10 petrol dissolved the glue holding the paper fuel filter inside the clear plastic canister. You should’ve seen the crap in the float bowls!!! Rotor arm spins just fine when the engine is cranked on the starter motor. One strange thing is the firing order. I’ve done the finger over the no 1 spark plug hole and get a fat gush of air when the rotor arm is at the 10 o’clock position. But before I started all of this the no. 1 plug lead was at the 4 o’clock position????
I’ve tried both combinations when replacing leads but still nothing?
Very frustrating

[A100]

[mopar_mark]

There’s no way the cylinder firing point can have moved as you described without there being an issue.

Bring the engine to TDC & ensure cylinder No 1 is in the compression stroke. When turning the engine over & with the valve cover off you want to see the exhaust close, Inlet open & index to TDC or get them rocking.

With the dizzy cap off, check to see rotor arm is pointing at No 1 on the cap….

[mopar_mark]

There’s no way the cylinder firing point can have moved as you described without there being an issue.

Bring the engine to TDC & ensure cylinder No 1 is in the compression stroke. When turning the engine over & with the valve cover off you want to see the exhaust close, Inlet open & index to TDC or get them rocking.

With the dizzy cap off, check to see rotor arm is pointing at No 1 on the cap….

If timing gear has slipped, it can still make the rocker gear move, except timing is now off.

[mopar_mark]

There’s no way the cylinder firing point can have moved as you described without there being an issue.

Bring the engine to TDC & ensure cylinder No 1 is in the compression stroke. When turning the engine over & with the valve cover off you want to see the exhaust close, Inlet open & index to TDC or get them rocking.

With the dizzy cap off, check to see rotor arm is pointing at No 1 on the cap….

If timing gear has slipped, it can still make the rocker gear move, except timing is now off, ignition & cam

[A100]

There’s no way the cylinder firing point can have moved as you described without there being an issue.

Bring the engine to TDC & ensure cylinder No 1 is in the compression stroke. When turning the engine over & with the valve cover off you want to see the exhaust close, Inlet open & index to TDC or get them rocking.

With the dizzy cap off, check to see rotor arm is pointing at No 1 on the cap….

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the dizzy hasn't moved, It's not loose at all. Maybe my finger over the plug hole technique is a bit iffy?
Didn't get a chance to do a compression test today and probably won't get a chance to look at it until the weekend now. I'll pop the valve cover off on the odd numbered bank of cylinders and check the opening/closing of valves.
If I cant get it fixed myself this weekend I think I'll have to throw in the towel and get someone with a bit more knowledge than me, to cast an expert eye over it.

[mygasser]

he didn't mean the dizzy body had moved, he meant the timing chain could have 'jumped' 1 or more teeth due to chain 'stretch' or missing teeth on the timing sprocket. if the timing chain has 'jumped' teeth altering the cam timing then the dizzy will be out of time too as it's driven off the camshaft.
neil.

[A100]

he didn't mean the dizzy body had moved, he meant the timing chain could have 'jumped' 1 or more teeth due to chain 'stretch' or missing teeth on the timing sprocket. if the timing chain has 'jumped' teeth altering the cam timing then the dizzy will be out of time too as it's driven off the camshaft.
neil.

Ahh. I understand. I’ll pop valve covers off and make sure everything is moving as it should. It’s a stock(ish) engine so nothing is under any great strain with wild performance upgrades so I’d be surprised if any part has failed. I’m probably missing something bloody obvious.

[Dave999]

does it have a carter bbd

if the choke is stuck they just don't start. too lean if its stuck open, just doesn't pull any fuel through and way too rich and floods if stuck shut
if it flaps about as you drive it will try to stall between gear shifts and you can prompt a stall by standing on the brakes or just pulling up to the lights

i had a broken choke on my 6 cylinder and the only way i could get it to start was to put a piece of plywood over the top of the carb (just half way with the filter off)

of get a friend to choke it with their hand and jump out of the way if it back fired....

that grew tiresome after about 5 minutes so i purchased a new choke hot box and rod, and a scrap carb and swapped the choke flap vaccum pot and carb top over.

set choke flap when cold so it hangs open about 1 rail ticket thickenss wide crack at the lower edge and check it opens to fully vertical as it warms, no problems after that until i stuck a massive 4 barrel on it and never quite got it right


other things to check
if standard electonic dizzy is used check that the 1/2mm roll pin that pins the relutcor 8 pointed star to the shaft of the dizzy has not worked its way up and is allowing the star to move, it should be pressed down just below the hight of the surrounding metal. its a press fit but can move if pin is missing. they only do this if the star hits the pickup contsantly due to bad adjustment or there are smashed bushes around the dizzy shaft or missing washers between drive and body in the dizzy

under normal circumstances they don't come out, gravity and press fit see's to that. you need play and up and down movement in the dizzy shaft to really cause this issue if you have none look elsewhere.

keep in mind you have a 5-10 degree sweet spot for getting it started after a dizzy removal and refit. make sure it goes in with the motor at 5BTDC on the compresion stroke (both valves on No.1 closed) and the rotor pointing at the line on the case, that shoud allow it to start but won't be ideal, wind in your desired inital advance once running.


Dave

[Dave999]

Yep, checked for a spark, fat spark from the coil and all 8 leads check out fine!
E10 petrol dissolved the glue holding the paper fuel filter inside the clear plastic canister. You should’ve seen the crap in the float bowls!!! Rotor arm spins just fine when the engine is cranked on the starter motor. One strange thing is the firing order. I’ve done the finger over the no 1 spark plug hole and get a fat gush of air when the rotor arm is at the 10 o’clock position. But before I started all of this the no. 1 plug lead was at the 4 o’clock position????
I’ve tried both combinations when replacing leads but still nothing?
Very frustrating

ah ok

you need to set it up thus dizzy drive section pointing at that far stud on no.1
and the leads in the correct position on the cap
in this position you are looking to see both valves closed on no.1
and the rotor arem pointing to no.1 tower on dizzy cap

4 stroke so TDC mark on balancer aligns with the marker on timing cover tab twice per cylce but only one of them is the firing point with both valves closed. the other is the top of the exhaust stroke pointless slinging in a spark then.....

Dave

[A100]

OK. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I shall jump in the cab of the van at the weekend and go through everything methodically. with any luck the old girl will burst back into life!
The only trouble is access. The way the engine sits in the cab and the position of the radiator make it really awkward to even get a socket on the end of the crankshaft, plus, I'm not as flexible as I used to be.